Cleary University continues to ignore the stated mission of the Economic Club Speakers Luncheon Series with the appearance of one more rightwing tool: this time Clinton hater Dick Morris.
The stated mission of the series is to “enrich the Livingston County community by hosting speakers who can share a broad spectrum of social, political, intellectual and cultural experiences.” But the last two years the choices have narrowed to the hard right. That came to a head with the appearance last year by the queen of hate, Ann Coulter.
Despite pleas by community groups to cancel her appearance and even a resignation from a member of the board of directors, Cleary refused to cancel her appearance. For good measure, they also had an appearance from anti-Muslim hatemonger Steve Emerson.
This is the fifth year for the series, and in the past they invited people who actually had something to do with business, like Florine Mark, Wally Amos and other entrepreneurs and business people. Coulter is the first strictly political person ever invited, and it’s not by chance.
Cleary’s Director of Development and Alumni Relations that booked the speakers for the last two years is the wife of the chairman of the Livingston County Republican Party.
A cynical person could easily reach the conclusion that the timing of this year’s guests coincide with the Democratic primary. In the spring when Sens. Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton were locked in a tight battle, African-American Republican Larry Elder was the speaker. Now, Monday’s appearance of Morris is just a month away from the General Election when many people, especially Morris, thought Clinton would be the Democratic Presidential nominee.
Morris - or as my favorite radio host Stephanie Miller calls him, "Prostitute Toe Sucker" Dick Morris - was fired from the Clinton camping after his relationship with posture Sherry Rowlands was revealed. He landed at Faux News where he can be seen every night on Faux as a pundit.
Of course, he is awful as a pundit, and he has never been right about anything. But, he has the best qualification for Faux: he has an intense hatred for the Clintons. In fact, he has made a career of that.
Even a broken watch is right twice a day, but Morris has a worse record. Among his famous predictions is that Hillary Clinton would be the Presidential nominee. He also said Rick Lazio would defeat Hillary Clinton for New York Senate the day before the election, and before that he said Hilary would not run for the Senate at all. In 1998, he predicted the Democrats "will absolutely be obliterated" in the midterm elections,: but they gained seats.
But Morris has that qualification he needs to be a pundit on Faux and to speak at Cleary: He hates the Clintons.
23 comments:
If you remember Morris worked for Clinton. Maybe he say what it was really like to be a Liberal and did not like what he saw. Sometimes the truth hurts
Correction Maybe he saw.
Try disgruntled employee cashing in on his association by telling right-wingers what they want to hear.
You know, the series once hosted Kwame Kilpatrick, not exactly a right-wing Clinton hater. An economic speaker series invites a number of varied people. In Washtenaw, for instance, the speakers have included humor writer Dave Barry and baseball star Cal Ripkin and Duke basketball Coach K. Not exactly business or political giants. But their series tries to be interesting and sell tickets. So does Livingston's.
The Coulter appearance was easily the top ticket seller in the history of the series. You said people pleaded with Cleary to cancel. Had they cancelled, they would have faced a much greater wrath from Cleary supporters, I imagine.
Morris, I understand, is the biggest ticket-seller for this year's series, which included Elder and an author who wrote about the Enron scandal...she was a great speaker that you chose not to mention. Hopefully that was an oversight.
I don't think there is any doubt that Morris was booked close to the election. It makes sense. It would have been even better for the series had Hillary been nominated...it would have spiced up his appearance.
Maybe I'm wrong, but you sound as though you feel there is a plot to bring in speakers to influence the Livingston County vote. If that's your theory, it seems lame. County voters don't need a speakers series in order to vote Republican. They do that pretty well by themselves. And those who would come to see conservative speakers are already going to vote Republican...so I don't get your point.
I am no fan or Morris but I like to hear what pundits say. Most can provide some insider stories and some even provide perspective. Morris was a toe-sucker, as you say, but he seemed to be okay for Bill Clinton. And I don't think Morris was ever accused of using cigars in interesting ways like your favorite Oval Office inhabitant.
I’m well aware the series once hosted Kwame Kilpatrick. But he was the mayor of the largest city in Michigan where many Livingston County residents once lived and many work there and pay city taxes. That’s a lot more relevance there than for out of state right-wing tools like Dick Morris, Steve Emerson and Ann Coulter.
Dave Barry and baseball star Cal Ripkin and Duke basketball Coach K would have been much better choices than a hatemonger like Coulter. In a past post I listed all of the people they could have had for the same price as Coulter and less from the same speaker’s bureau that booked the queen of hate.
Funny, no where in the mission statement for the series does it say “sell as many tickets as possible.” Some things are more important than ticket sales, and they would have sold just as many tickets by booking a decent person instead of a hate-filled racist.
I disagree. Few people would have complained if they canceled the queen of hate.
I have no idea if Morris is the biggest ticket-seller for this year's series or not. You seem to have inside information. Are you connected to Cleary? I did not write about the person from Enron for two reasons, and it was not an oversight. First, this is a political blog. Second, that speaker meets the mission of the series, Morris does not. I would have no problem with Morris if there was some balance. Hell, they could have brought in a well known right-wing pundit that was right once in a while. Morris has never been right.
Yes, it would have been better for Morris if Hilary was nominated: better but unfair. The fact is that was the plan, like I said in the original post. If she had won the idiot would have been right on a prediction for the first time in his life.
Great observation. There is a conspiracy to bring right-wing tools in. The person who books them is the wife of the chair of the county Republican Party. You missed that? Again, the point is the stated mission of the series is to bring in diverse speakers. That’s not happening.
I also like to hear what pundits have to say, but once again, Morris sucks, and he has never been right. He was a toe sucker, and that’s why he was let go by the Clinton people. I think the last straw was when he was giving inside info to prostitutes to impress them. Maybe that’s why he’s such a disgruntled ex-employee. Now, you may think a whoremonger is suitable for Cleary University, but I don’t. I also fail to see what the crack “using cigars in interesting ways” has to do with anything.
Besides, do you really think you’re going to hear something new from him that has not already appeared in his false, disgusting books? Get real.
Maybe I won't hear anything new. I was disappointed in Coulter's talk for that very reason. I expected her one-liners and insults...but I hoped for a message with a theme, and it didn't happen.
I mentioned Kwame because he did provide a diverse opinion...as did the Enron speaker (who criticized the ethics of big business and the government oversight, or lack of same. You implied there wasn't diversity with regard to the mission statement and I think there has been. Although it's true that both political speakers this year have been conservative.
Their mission may not be to sell tickets but it doesn't make sense to have a speakers series in front of an empty room. Maybe you don't understand that since you are a Livingston County democrat and they seem fine with the fact that they can't get many votes here.
I am not an employee of Cleary nor am I an "insider," but I do attend many speaker series events. I know their attendance dropped a couple three years ago with non-exciting speakers. I know Coulter was by far the top ticket-seller in the series history. And I was told at the last session that ticket sales for Morris were tops for the year. May or may not be true. Sorry to spoil your conspiracy theories, but I'm just an observer.
You seemed fixated on the wife of the county Republican party. Is it all spouses of political people who can't have jobs? Just Republicans/ Or just wives? I'm curious. Again, from what I'm told, she's the person who executes the plan. There is a committee that decides who the speakers will be. But if her marriage sullies the decision in your mind, does that mean that Hillary was nothing more than an extension for Bill? Or are only Democratic women allowed to have careers?
The Clinton cigar remarks was because of your toe-sucking reference. Clinton was surely shamelful in his Oval Office escapades, yet that doesn't seem to bother you. and Morris passed on secrets to his hooker? Give me a break. What about the times monica was doing the naty with Bill while Bubba was on the phone with foreign leaders. Monica had her ears open as well as her mouth at those times.
Here's the deal. You discredit Morris now because he backs Republicans. But if he had stayed in good graces with the Clintons, you would be defending him and ignoring or minimizing the toe-sucking.
Go ahead now, let me have it. But we all know that I am right on this.
Sorry, we all know you’re wrong on this.
So you plunked down $60 to hear racist insults from Coulter. That’s a welcome change from right-wingers condemning her racism in public and cheering privately while plunking down money for her crappy books.
Like I said before, Kwame Kilpatrick represents the largest city in the state, and that’s really not a political speaker and it fits the mission of the series. I not only implied there wasn't diversity with regard to the mission statement, I proved it. When was the last time there was a liberal or even a Democratic speaker, and it has been more than just last year that the speakers have been conservative.
The main goal should not be to strictly sell tickets, and you can sell plenty of tickets with decent and respectful speakers. I’m fine with the “fact that they (Democrats) can't get many votes here?” Hardly. Democrats also got more than 33,000 votes in the presidential election in 2004. Now, that’s not as many as voted for the Grand Oil Party, but certainly enough to fill a room at Cleary. Plus, you also to need to consider Cleary is based out of Ann Arbor, which has a few more Democrats. And, the mission of the series is to bring diverse voices to the series, not to please the majority.
Here’s a link to who Cleary could have brought in:
http://liberalmedianot.blogspot.com/2007/04/coulter-pales-in-comparison-to-other.html
How about Helen Thomas, Art Linkletter or Geraldine Ferraro? All for less money than Morris and Coulter.
I‘m “fixated” on “the wife of the county Republican party” because the series didn’t always bring in rightwing tools, and it only coincided with the apparent promotion of the two. I also never saw the LEC series advertised on the county’s GOP web site until the last couple of years. Of course spouses of political people can have jobs, but for you to suggest there is no connection is not based on facts. Nor is your claim that you or her do not have a hand in the selection process based on fact.
The Clinton cigar remarks was just a cheap shot. President Bill Clinton has accomplished a heck of a lot more than Dick Morris, and he only has a career because he hates the Clintons. Yes, Morris passed on secrets to his hooker. Don’t tell me you don’t believe that? What about the times Monica “was doing the naty (sic) with Clinton?” Where’s the proof for your ridiculous claim that she was doing the “naty” with Clinton while “he was on the phone with foreign leaders.” This has to be Allan Filip. This is typical of the ridiculous bullshit you have come out with since you have been the chair of the county party. This has nothing to do with the Clintons. This has to do with a series that claims it brings in diverse voices and brings in nothing but right-wingers and then tries to directly effect an election.
Do you ever read your stuff before you push "send?" First you say it was more than last year that the speakers were conservative; then you said the series didn't book rightwing speakers until the recent appointment of the GOP chair's wife. It's only been around about 5 years, so which was it: A long history of conservative speakers, or two or three the last couple years?
(By the way, I'm not Allan Filip. You are continually wrong with your identify accusations. I've seen you be wrong with others and you've been wrong twice with me. I'm not going to bother to correct you anymore, but it does show me some insight into how much accuracy plays into your posts.)
"Brings in nothing but righwing speakers." Talk about hogwash. What string of conservative speakers? The cookie woman? The Weight Watchers Woman? The admiral turned author? The woman who analyzes fads? The Washington correspondent? Kwame Kilpatrick? The Enron author? The economist? It's all in your mind.
You should have gone to today's talk. Morris was good. Very clear on where he stands politically, but good. He said there was a lot of blame for the financial crisis, but put 80 percent of the blame on the Republicans. When's the last time one of your cherished Democrats accepted any fault on behalf of that party? Besides Liebermann, I mean.
He was partisan, to be sure, but he was also informative. Interesting stuff about the auto industry, energy and the history of the mortgage crisis.
It's nice that you feel as though you should select the speakers for them, but I think they feel they can do that on their own. But go ahead and start your own series and see how ticket sales go...or are you one of those people who would rather slam others than do something yourself?
By the way, next year's speakers are Wally Amos, founder of the Famous Amos cookie company; Eleanor Clift, contributing editor for Newsweek; and John Stossel, anchor of 20/20 on ABC. Another set of conservative wackos, huh?
You said I plucked down $60 to hear Coulter make racist insults. Tell me one racist insult she made when she came to speak in Livingston County.
I'll accept that I made a mistake. Clinton wasn't necessarily on the phone with a foreign leader when he did the nasty with Monica. It may have been a member of Congress. Monica's testimony from the Starr report:
Ms. Lewinsky testified: "I believe he took a phone call...and so we moved from the hallway into the back office...(H)e put his hand down my pants and stimulated me manually in the genital area." While the President continued talking on the phone (Ms. Lewinsky understood that the caller was a Member of Congress or a Senator), she performed oral sex on him.
The cigar stories are also cited in her testimony. Actions the nation can be proud of, I'm sure.
No Al, I just write it, I don’t read it. The last two years we have seen rightwing tools that coincides with the appointment of you as the chair of the Grand Oil Party chair. You were appointed in December 2006, and the last two years the political speakers have been extreme rightwing tools.
http://liberalmedianot.blogspot.com/2006/12/local-gop-convention-chooses-leaders-in.html
So I’m supposed to believe you’re not Allan Filip and I’m wrong just because you say so? Please. Like I have said continuously, when political speakers are brought in, they are right-wingers. “The cookie woman? The Weight Watchers Woman? The admiral turned author? The woman who analyzes fads? The Washington correspondent? Kwame Kilpatrick? The Enron author? The economist?” are all nonpolitical speakers, and they meet the mission of the series.
“Go ahead and start my own series?” That’s a stupid comment, Al. Cleary has been around for more than a 100 years, and many people have worked hard to help it grow, including members of my family. It’s sad that a great community asset is pissing that away for a quick buck or for what I don’t know.
The first two speakers next year are nonpartisan who meet the mission, but Stossel is a rightwing tool. It would be nice to add one liberal to that list to balance out the last four rightwing tools that spoke the last two years.
I didn’t go to the Coulter event, so how do I know what racist remarks she made at the event? However, I featured one week up to the time she made her speech.
If the country should be ashamed of an extramarital affair, then why are people voting for John McCain? In my book, the country needs to be more ashamed of torturing and abusing prisoners and starting an unnecessary war than the president getting a BJ. As for Morris, he has not accomplished a fraction of what Bill Clinton has, and his vile actions continue to this day.
I don't know if Kwame is a liberal but he is surely a Democrat. So there has been a Democratic speaker. Let's put it this way: Since the series started, there have been more Democratic speakers than there have been Democrats who have won countywide elections.
You call people you don't agree with conservative tools. That's the problem with folks like you on both sides of the political scene. You discount something because of who said it, not because of its content. Then you expect to be taken seriously.
Dick Morris is clearly a conservative and listeners should filter his comments accordingly. But his speech Monday was still informative. He provided good insights on the auto industry, the energy debate and the financial crisis. And guess what? Even though he said there was a lot of blame to go around, he placed the majority of the blame on the Republicans, by an 80-20 margin. When's the last time one of your Democratic sweethearts has blamed a Democrat for anything?
And your description of next year's speakrs is ridiculous. Two nonpartisans and a Republican tool? Please. You don't like what Stossel says, apparently, so that makes him a tool...a rightwing one at that. Should we assume everything you say is useless because you are a liberal tool? (Not bad advice, actually).
But to say Eleanor Clift is nonpartisan is outlandish. She would never claim that. Her nickname used to be Eleanor Rodham Clift because she so zealously defended Hillary Clinton.
I can't help but laugh at your assertion that ticket sales shouldn't be a priority for the series. I guess that's not surprising, given the lack of audiences at most meetings of county Democrats. Democrats get no crowds, and they are happy. Cleary's ticket sales are rising, and they are happy. You are baying at the moon and, I assume, you are happy.
Everyone's happy.
Like I have said about three times now, Kwame Kilpatrick is the mayor of the state's most important and largest Michigan city, and many Livingston County residents once lived there and many work there and pay city taxes. He was not strictly a political speaker like Coulter, Morris and Emerson. The fact that no Democrat has won a county wide election in Livingston County is irrelevant because Cleary is headquartered out of Ann Arbor and many students, teachers and board members are from Ann Arbor. And again, the mission is to bring in diverse voices, not to please the majority party. How diverse is that?
I call conservative tools because they are conservative tools. I could care less what you think of me. Here's the difference: I'm a liberal with a liberal point of view. I don't pretend to be nonpartisan or claim I'm promoting diverse voices and have nothing but liberal views like Cleary has nothing but rightwing tools when it has political speakers.
What has pundit Dick Morris ever been right about, and his entire shtick is he hates the Clintons. What has he ever been right about? "Democratic sweethearts?" Democrats take responsibility for their actions, like Eliot Spitzer.
My description of next year's speakers is right on. Stossel's views are rightwing positions. Eleanor Clift is nonpartisan. She is the former Newsweek's White House correspondent, and she has covered presidents from Carter to Bush. I would rather hear what she has to say than Morris, and she will be much more entertaining.
I Never said " that ticket sales shouldn't be a priority for the series." I said it should not be the number one goal. They will do fine by just following the stated mission. What makes you think there's a "lack of audiences at most meetings of county Democrats?" You are again wrong. You might want to attend an event or read my entire blog, Al.
A tool is someone who makes up arguments and foes. I'm not Al, but that doesn't bother you a bit. Facts are irritants to people like you. Clifton should be a fine speaker, but she's hardly nonpartisan. She is used to counter Buchanan on TV.
You parse and rationalize to the point of lunacy. Cleary has an Ann Arbor base so that's the audience it needs to consider when selecting speakers for a Livingston function? Amazing.
You harp on Morris being a one-note anti-Clinton bleater...but that was not at all the theme of Monday's speech. His talk really wasn't about her at all. He did criticize her in response to a question, but it was a small part of his entire presentation. He praised Bill Clinton frequently.
I was most disappointed in him because he praised the Palin choice by McCain. But he did make a point worth pondering. He said Palin made it to the ticket on her own; Hillary is there only because of who her husband is. In that regard, he said Palin's candidacy advanced feminism more than Hillary's candidacy. You can argue that point, but it's a fair one to make. Specifically, had Bill Clinton been an insurance salesman, would Hillary ever have run for the US Senate, much less get elected?
I was most impressed by Morris when he said McCain missed the boat on the bailout strategy. Morris's take on the bailout made sense both from a policy and strategic standpoint. Interesting stuff.
You better hope that Morris isn't always wrong. He predicted Obama would win in November and that the Democrats would make huge gains in the Senate.
I didn't want to get in this fight, but now I can't resist. Democrats take responsibility for their actions? Yeah, right. Ask Mary Jo Kopechne. Oh, you can't. She's dead.
Or what about Slick Willie Clinton. He took responsibility for bonking Gennifer Flowers. No, wait, he denied it until she produced phone tapes.
But he took responsibility for Monica Lewinsky. No, wait, he denied it on national TV...but then along came that stained dress.
You know, it's not responsible when you only admit it after your lies have been exposed.
And, yes, I know that Repubs have sordid pasts as well and I'm sure you will go that route. But that's not the point. You said Dems take responsibility for their actions. It's a stupid statements. Some people from both parties are honorable and some from both parties are sleazy.
Oh
My
God
He's not really using Eliott Spitzer as an example of what a good Democrat is, is he?
Do the Democrats know this guy speaks for them? Can't they convince him to stop.
Eliott Spitzer is a stand-up guy, huh? Hell, not only does he pay for it, but he pays too much...typical Democrat is he.
Wait, I’m supposed to believe you’re not Al simply because you say so? Why? I don’t even know if I am talking to the same person every time. Most people choose a screen name that keeps their real name private. It’s not difficult. “Facts are irritants to people like me?” Based on what; your opinion?
Who is Clifton? Eleanor Clift is a journalist, plain and simple. You can’t say the same thing about Coulter, Emerson or Morris. I brought up Cleary is based in Ann Arbor because of your ridiculous claim that it’s OK to bring in nothing but right-wingers because of your claim that no Democrat has won a county wide office in Livingston County. And I’m the one that “rationalizes to the point of lunacy?” Ditto for you, Al. How about simply living up to the stated mission of the program and bring in the diverse voices?
I harp on Morris as a “one-note anti-Clinton bleater” for one reason: he is. He would have no career otherwise, and he would certainly not be on faux “news” every night. I can tell you this, if he made any predictions, they will be wrong. I’m still waiting for you to tell me a prediction he made that was correct. Wow, what a surprise he attacked Hilary Clinton.
“Palin's candidacy advanced feminism more than Hillary's candidacy?” That is the stupidest thing you have ever said. I didn’t see people wearing buttons at the Democratic convention saying Hilleary was hot, but we saw them at the Grand Oil Party convention saying Palin was hot. You are even more wrong when you say “Hillary is there only because of who her husband is.” It gave her name recognition, but she had to earn those votes against first Rudy 9/11 and then the other tool. He had nothing to do with her performance in the Senate or her victories on the campaign trail. The same claim can be made for W and Jeb. It was no accomplishment for Palin to be chosen. She was chosen because she pleases the extremists who own the GOP because Grampy can’t. She is not qualified.
Wow. Bold move by Morris predicting Obama will win with less than 30 days to the election when he is ahead in every poll. This is the same guy who said Hillary would be the hands down winner.
I wouldn’t have nearly the problem I have with Morris if there was some balance, but I still think you can find a better right-winger. He was brought in because you thought Hillary would be the nominee.
Here’s your first lie: “I didn't want to get in this fight.” If that was the case you wouldn’t have posted it and did it anonymously. I stand by what I said. For me, here’s the huge difference: Unlike the Grand Oil Party, Democrats don’t preach and try and take the moral high ground, especially as corrupt as the GOP is.
As for Bill Clinton, he paid a price and was impeached. If there was a crime involved with the death of Mary Jo Kopechne why no charge or conviction? It also cost him the presidency.
But I don’t believe Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy is running for president. Why is it OK with you for Grampy McSame to dump his first wife who stood by him when he was a POW and committed adultery with a younger woman?
Yes, he is using Eliott Spitzer as an example. You, or some other person, said
“Even though he said there was a lot of blame to go around, he placed the majority of the blame on the Republicans, by an 80-20 margin. When's the last time one of your Democratic sweethearts has blamed a Democrat for anything?”
Eliott Spitzer is an example of someone who took responsibility for his actions.
I would like to continue this, because it's fun to see you twist like a pretzel. But for what purpose? The 2 or 3 others who read this site?
When's the last time one of your Democratic sweethearts blamed another Democrat for a policy decision? That's a lot different than resigning after you've been caught and charged with paying thousands of dollars to be with a hooker. I still can't believe that you use Eliott Spitzer as your example of a shining light for Democrats. But you know the party better than I do, I guess.
News flash, Bozo. Ted Kennedy was charged and convicted relating to the accident that killed Mary Jo Kopechne. He should have been charged with more, but he tried to duck all responsibility, failing to call authorities that night, recruiting friends at the party to help with the cover up, going back to his hotel room and sleeping away the rest of the night without contacting authorities, getting up the next morning without telling authorities, going back to the island and initially denying knowledge when police asked about the submerged car...well, I guess you would forgive all that if he had only paid for sex with a hooker and then resigned. That's what real stand-up Democrats do.
Now go ahead and tell me about how McCain dumped his wife or committed adultry (I bet Bill Clinton gets morally outraged when he hears about people cheating on their wife), and ignore these questions. They are simple ones but you won't understand them: Are you happy with the way Ted Kennedy behaved the night Mary Jo Kopechne died? Can you name a single Democrat of note who has ever criticized Kennedy for his actions that night?
There are much more than "two or three readers," Brett, Al or who ever you are, and if that's so then why are you even bothering?
What's with this "Democratic sweetheart" bullshit? I have no idea when a Democrat "blamed another Democrat for a policy decision." I also don't see the relevance or why in your mind assigning blame and pointing fingers is a virtue. Yes, I use Eliott Spitzer and will continue to use it as an example of someone taking responsibility for their actions. It was you, I believe, who said Democrats do not take responsibility for their actions. I never, ever said he is an "example of a shining light for Democrats." You just need to look at the example of David Vitter for a Republican taking responsibility for his actions that were similar to Spitzer's.
Thanks, "bozo." I was in elementary school when the Kennedy accident occurred, so I had forgotten. You are correct. Kennedy entered a plea of guilty to a charge of leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury. I guess that just proves my point of Democrats taking responsibility for their actions.
You don't know Grampy McSame dumped his wife and committed adultery? Gee, I'm not surprised. Again, Democrats have never tried to take the moral high ground, preach to other people and claim we are the exclusive party of family values. I think it's a heck of a lot worse to dump the wife who stood by you for five years while you were gone and then dump her for a younger woman than committing adultery and then confessing and trying to keep your family intact.
I have no idea if "Bill Clinton gets morally outraged when he hears about people cheating on their wife," nor do I even care. What I do know is this, you can't claim to be the party of morals and family values and then have your candidate be an adulterer and a scumbag.
Am I "happy with the way Ted Kennedy behaved the night Mary Jo Kopechne died?" No. Tell you what: I will never vote for him for that one mistake he pled guilty to. "Can you name a single Democrat of note who has ever criticized Kennedy for his actions that night?" Certainly not off the top of my head; it was almost 40 years ago.
I agree. Democrats have never tried to take the moral high ground.
The Grand Oil Party has never had the moral high ground and never will no mater how much they try and claim it.
Post a Comment