The senseless murder of Kansas Dr. George Tiller on Sunday illustrated the height of hypocrisy of the right and the so-called “pro-life” crowd.
Tiller was shot to death as he served as an usher during Evangelical Lutheran Church in America services in front of his family. Tiller was a long-time target for the anti-abortion extremists because he dared perform a legal procedure on women who chose to have an abortion in a safe manner. The Women's Health Care Services, where he served as the medical director, was one of only three nationwide which would provide abortion after the 21st week of pregnancy.
What’s really amazing is the messages of sympathy coming from the extremists. The domestic terrorist group “Operation Rescue” issued a statement, saying: “We are shocked at this morning’s disturbing news that Mr. Tiller was gunned down. Operation Rescue has worked for years through peaceful, legal means, and through the proper channels to see him brought to justice. We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning. We pray for Mr. Tiller’s family that they will find comfort and healing that can only be found in Jesus Christ.”
The alleged murder of Dr. Tiller, Scott Roeder, has ties to “Operation Rescue.”
With the way the right whips up hatred against people it disagrees with, no one can be surprised at this murder. We saw it by the Bushies calling people who disagree with the war they lied the country into a traitor, the hatred of President Obama and now this.
A quick check of the headlines of rightwing blogs in Michigan tells the story.
“Breaking: Abortionist George "Baby Killer" Tiller Shot Dead In Kansas”
“Dr. Tiller the baby killer has been Murdered”
“Wickedness”
So much for being “shocked at the disturbing news.”
Prior to this attack, Dr. Tiller was shot in both arms outside of the Wichita clinic on August 19, 1993 by Shelley Shannon, described as a “Christian,” pro-life activist, who received an 11-year prison sentence for the crime.
With the hatred the right whipped up, it was just a matter of time before this heroic doctor was murdered. This is a former Navy doctor whose specialty was dermatology. He was pressured to take over his father's family practice, who performed abortions. After hearing about a woman that had died from an illegal abortion, Tiller stayed in Wichita to continue his father's practice.
Rightwing demagogue Bill O'Reilly was one of the worst examples of whipping up hate against Dr. Tiller. He was discussed in at least 28 episodes before his death. On the show he was sometimes described as "Tiller the Baby Killer" and O'Reilly warned of Tiller's "judgment day.” November 3, 2006, Bill O'Reilly featured an exclusive segment on his show, The O'Reilly Factor, saying that he has an "inside source" with official clinic documentation indicating that George Tiller performed late-term abortions to alleviate "temporary depression" in the pregnant woman.
23 comments:
You have a very odd take on this story. They haven't charged the guy that they picked up yet. I don't know where you got the information that he was tied to Anti-abortion advocates. So far, they have only given information on the Anti-Life doctor.
You state that he specializes in abortions after the 21st week. You danced around the fact that he's a doctor that performs abortions at the last minute by inserting the needle into the brain of the baby as all of it's body is out, but the head still remains in the body...barely.
Procedures used in later term
There are at least three medical procedures associated with late-term abortions:
Dilation and evacuation (D&E)
Early induction of labor
Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or D&X), sometimes referred to as "partial-birth abortion"
Abortions done for fetal abnormality are usually performed with induction of labor or with IDX; Elective late-term abortions are usually performed with D&E.[
This is also known as Partial Birth Abortion.
Tiller was not shot down in front of his family as you insist, according to the reports. The other usher apparently came into the sanctuary and had his wife come out but for everyone else to stay in. I tend to believe this because someone is quoted as saying they heard her scream from outside when she went out there.
You're being just as extreme as the ones you accuse of being extreme. Your hatred is showing through very clearly.
If you turn out to be correct and this guy, or even someone else if he's innocent, did kill this doctor due to his partial birth abortion activities, it was the wrong way to make his feelings on abortion known.
I am pro-life. That means that babies don't need to be murdered before birth, nor even at birth. Killing someone that does perform these procedures, is a violation of law and civilization. He should receive the death penalty if he purposely singled this doctor out for his performing these procedures. Yes, I said the criminal should receive the death penalty if he planned and carried out the killing of this doctor.
I am pro-life. Babies don't have a say. They didn't do anything wrong. But a killer did have a say. He took someone elses life and he did it by choice. If he's convicted of first degree murder, he should be put to death.
I wonder if you had the same indignation for the Unibomber, that you have for the right wing so-called extremists. After all, he was caught living in a shack, and he was a Liberal extremist. Or perhaps you're just as indignant at the Obama administration for dropping the suit against the black panthers for preventing people from voting last November.
I suspect that you have nothing to say about liberal extremists that take lives, bomb government buildings, bomb people, prevent people from voting because a black man is on the ticket.
The real story is in my next post (since you've limited the size of what can be put on here now) about this incident in Kansas as it stands today. I put this in for people that don't read, but just believe what someone says if they agree with that person that's doing the writing.
WICHITA, Kan. – Dr. George Tiller, one of the nation's few providers of late-term abortions despite decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher.
The gunman fled, but a 51-year-old suspect was detained some 170 miles away in suburban Kansas City three hours after the shooting, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said.
Although Stolz refused to release the man's name, Johnson County sheriff's spokesman Tom Erickson identified the detained man as Scott Roeder. He has not been charged in the slaying and was expected to be taken to Wichita for questioning.
There was no immediate word of the motive Tiller's assailant. But the doctor's violent death was the latest in a string of shootings and bombings over two decades directed against abortion clinics, doctors and staff.
Long a focus of national anti-abortion groups, including a summer-long protest in 1991, Tiller was shot in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church, Stolz said. Tiller's attorney, Dan Monnat, said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time.
The slaying of the 67-year-old doctor is "an unspeakable tragedy," his widow, four children and 10 grandchildren said in statement. "This is particularly heart-wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace."
The family said its loss "is also a loss for the city of Wichita and women across America. George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care despite frequent threats and violence."
Stolz said all indications were that the gunman acted alone, although authorities were investigating whether he had any connection to anti-abortion groups.
Couldn't put the entire article on. You've got restrictions on the space used. What are you afraid people will see?
Not at all, brett. I said alleged murder Scott Roeder.
There is no such thing as an “anti-life” doctor, and it’s false rhetoric like that, that created the kind of atmosphere where somebody walks into a church and murders someone in cold blood.
I didn’t dance around anything, brett. He performs a legal medical procedure that a woman chose - that’s the key word, brett - to have performed. It’s not a choice I would make, but it is a legal choice.
Oh, well, then its OK if it didn’t happen in front of his wife. Apparently, according to Kansas TV station KWCH, “the doctor's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time of the shooting. Another usher came in and told the congregation to remain seated, then escorted Tiller's wife out. "When she got to the back doors, we heard her scream, and so we knew something bad had happened," Watkins said.”
Give me a break, brett. You create this atmosphere, and then express shock when somebody carries out what you have been advocating. If you incite a riot you get charged with that, but not in this case.
The Unibomber? What the hell does that have to do with this discussion? Just for the record, I never supported the Unibomber, and I know of no one, liberal or otherwise, who thought he was anything but a criminal.
I don’t place any restriction on length, brett. Blogspot may have, but I don’t. This is what you can do, brett: Post it on your blog, or post here in sections. Please, be my guest.
I agree with the President, so why do you support terrorists and murders?
You are a sick person, Ms. Smith.
How about this, Ms. Smith, don’t have an abortion, but you have no right to make that choice for someone else.
There is no way you are a Christian, Ms. Smith.
Gee, Guru agrees with the President. Who would have thought that could happen?
Ok, Mr. Writer. I've noticed it three times now. I thought originally it was just a typo, but three times shows it's not a typo. When talking about someone who kills they are called murderers. Not murders.
Miss Smith is not a sick person. She is apparently someone that believes strongly that babies did nothing wrong and therefore don't deserve the pain and suffering of being murdered whether it be early in the pregnancy or the last minute before the pregnancy comes to an end and the brain is sucked out of the baby's head.
To describe her positions as "sick" or her as "sick" shows a complete lack of tolerance for anothers opinion. This is likely why you are not taken seriously by most and by the majority of the blog sites.
I doubt seriously that you had to order her not to have an abortion. Her choice is not to have one. Her choice is to be optimistic and choose to allow the baby created, to live and not force it to die.
By voicing an opinion against abortion, she is not making anyone's choice for them. She is stating her position on abortion.
Judging someones christian beliefs or lack thereof is not your right. That is between her and God. Do you now think that you are on a par with God?
You said it's a woman's choice. But apparently, you think it's only a choice if she chooses to have an abortion, but choosing not to have an abortion is not a choice, but a religious zealout acting out.
You are full of so many contradictions. It is very telling that you've written twice on this topic in two days. It is very easy to see that you are pro abortion, anti life.
The sad thing is that I almost agree with you. I'm almost in favor of abortions because most abortions are had by liberals. That's what I call 'thinning the herd". How dare you condemn someone elses religion or beliefs because they choose to take responsibility for their actions while you're perfectly willing to allow people to hide their activities by killing off the remnants of the activity that they took part in.
Maybe the best thing for you to do is to get castrated so you don't have to worry about making anyone pregnant and for the women in your life to turn off the red light and keep their legs together rather than spreading themselves out for every Tom, Dick, and Harry.
"There is no way you are a Christian, Ms. Smith."
Wow, even for a guy who normally shows no common sense nor logic nor ability to deal with facts, this is off the deep end.
A person you've never met makes one post and you can tell without a doubt that she is not a Christian. Why is that? Because she is against something that she considers to be murder? Apparently.
Let's say that snatching newborn babies from their parents who were then told into slavery was legal. Would someone who opposed that be a non-Christian? Slavery was once legal in America and people who opposed it were vilified.
I'm not pro-life, by the way, at least not in the way it is commonly used. I believe in a woman's right to choose to obtain a safe abortion and to receive compassionate, professional medical care while doing so.
Nonetheless, I understand the opposition, particularly those who believe the fetus is sacred life and, as such, is the victim of murder in an abortion. I disagree with them, but I understand their position.
You, however, can't wait to find a way to put a political spin on anything. You gleefully took the good doctor's death as a way of promoting your agenda, and attacking anyone who dares disagree with you. Where in your post is your compassion for the man who was murdered? You couldn't be bothered in your haste to take a shot at all those you lump together as right-wingers.
"With the way the right whips up hatred against people it disagrees with..." is your line. But that's precisely what you do.
You've made two long posts on this subject in which you found space to severely criticize O'Reilly and Terry, as well as to compare rightwingers to terrorists and to al Qaeda.
I'm not saying there isn't room for a lot of fair criticism of those two, but you go off the deep end by comparing them to al Qaeda. Your extremism is as bad or worse as those you condemn.
And yet throughout those diatribes, you cannot find the time or space for one word of compassion about Dr.Tiller or his family. Not one word. He's just a convenient tool for you to spout your hatred. It's almost as though you enjoy his death as an opportunity to spout your propaganda.
Just what type of Christian are you?
Kevins,
You give him too much credit by asking what type of Christian he is. What, in any of his writing, leads you to believe that he is any sort of Christian? Could it be his holier than thou attitude?
Dr. Tiller is a tool for him. He apparently wanted the chance to complain about O'Reilly. What amazes me is that he actually references the Daily Kos. These are the same people that said that Sarah Palin really didn't have her baby, Trig. They instead claimed it was her daughters baby and not hers. The only problem with that, other than being water cooler gossip is that her daughter was pregnant at the time Palin's son was born. Now that would be a neat trick. That might even be the true definition of "baby factory".
Signed, Not Brett either
Wow, you have gone off the reservation a little more than usual, brett. I don’t think I will ever find someone I agree with 100 percent, brett, unless I have a long lost twin out there, and then maybe not.
I have to disagree with your characterization of Ms. Smith. I don’t see how you can condone the murder of an innocent, living human being in a church and still claim to be a Christian.
See can voice her opinion all she wants on abortion, as can I, and I also have the right to criticize her. However, I would never whip up hate for her to the point that some lunatic would put a bullet in her head.
I, and every other person, have every right to question her alleged “Christian beliefs.”
She, or anyone, can choose to have or not have an abortion. Like I said before, it should be rare, safe and legal. I am pro-choice, anti-abortion.
Wow, castrated. I guess I should not be surprised at that option from someone like you, brett. How about a vasectomy, which I have had after my fourth child?
Like I just said, brett; I just don’t see how anyone can condone the murder of an innocent, living human being in a church and still claim to be a Christian. You just choose to skip the commandment that says you shall not kill?
That’s my opinion of her beliefs based on what I leaned in church. I have every right to express my opinion of her. Like I just told you, brett; I would never whip up hate for her to the point that some lunatic would put a bullet in her head.
Ah, the slavery talking point again. It doesn’t apply here.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand their position. Opposition is one thing, but murder and terrorism is another.
“I can't wait to find a way to put a political spin on anything.” I don’t know if you are aware of this, brett, but this is a political blog, and to claim abortion is not a political issue is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how politically powerful RTL is? Hell, you can’t even be a Republican unless you are pro-life, and now they are trying to make it so you can’t be a Catholic or even a Christian if you are not pro-life.
“Where in your post is your compassion for the man who was murdered?” Apparently, you can’t read well. Second, because I point out the hypocrisy of right-wingers who celebrate the murder of an innocent man, its’ a “way of promoting my agenda?” That is ridiculous. How dare I point out the truth and their hypocrisy.
How am I whipping up the hated of anyone? I have called no one a baby killer or a contract killer like Ms. Smith and Billo did.
That is correct, they are as bad as al Qaeda. The simple fact is the murder of these doctors and bomb attacks on these health clinics is to intimidate any other doctors into not providing a legal service, and it is working. That is the very definition of terrorism.
“Just what type of Christian am I? Any kind I want to be.
“actually references the Daily Kos? So? The “reference the Daily Kos” is a video of Billo’s rants. Those are his word’s, not those of Daily Kos, brett.
I read very well. It's telling that you declined to show where you showed any compassion for Dr. Tiller or his family. That's because you didn't. You immediately went into a frenzy to attack anyone who has an opinion different than yours. Operation Rescue's statement showed more compassion than you did. You couldn't be bothered.
What's great is how easily and apparently without a clue that you use your own words to prove your lies and deception.
You repeatedly say Ms. Smith condoned the killing. She did no such thing. You lied and lied again.
She expressed that she had no feeling for Dr. Tiller, his family nor his church...a statement that was true the day before he died as it was the day after he died. I don't agree with her sentiment, but she never said she condoned his killing.
You say in one statement that you don't whip up hate, but you also say that she supports murders and terrorists. I saw nothing in her post that said that. She said she considers Tiller to be a monster who kills unborn babies. I don't agree with her, but that's her opinion. She said nothing about supporting his murder. (Maybe she takes that position elsewhere; I don't know. But you lied about what she posted and stated that she supports terrorists. Again, you use the very tactics you supposedly criticize.)
You didn't say she had unChristianlike opinions; you didn't say her actions were not those of a Christians. You state emphatically that there was "no way" that she was a Christian. You can't know that, but facts again are not in your arsenal.
Are you really so stupid as to not understand the slavery analogy? The anti-abortionists today think that abortion is every bit as evil as the abolitionists thought about slavery. Both were legal in their time and both are opposed by large amounts of people. I am not at all saying abortion and slavery are equivalent. I am saying that today's abortion foes have the same feelings as did abolitionists in the 19th century, some of whom were pretty savage in their cause. John Brown massacred people and justified it becaue he was anti-slavery. Does that mean that every anti-slavery person was a terrorist or killer? Of course not.
Even you should be able to understand that. If not, ask one of your little boyfriends to explain.
Well, let's point out a couple of your lies. Although it's difficult to separate out your comments to Kevins and to me because you address us both as Brett. I will give you credit though. At least you didn't call Debra, Brett.
1. First lie. Nobody condoned murder of the doctor. By the way, this partial birth abortion doctor is trained as a dermotologist. I wonder if he considers babies a pimple on the womb.
2. By saying you'd never whip up hate to put a bullett in her head, you do so by suggesting that you wouldn't. By the way, nobody whipped up hatred to shoot him. There have been almost no incidents in abortion clinics being bombed or people being shot, let alone killed, in years. The only thing said about Tiller in the past few years is when Sebelius was nominted to replace the tax cheat, Daschle, who was nominated to replace the scandal ridden Richardson.
3. Second lie. Republicans don't accept anti-life people into the REpublican party. This is a lie. You should know that from a Republican in your own area. Sherry Munsell.
4. Equating people that bomb abortion clinics and shoot at doctors, which is rare and hasn't happened in several years, to al Queda is to water down the very real daily threat of terrorism here and abroad. I understand that you want to coddle the terrorists, but you're really dismissing terrorism by including isolated incidents of attacks on those that kill babies to the terrorist threat we live under daily.
5. I like it that you choose to challenge her Christianity by pointing out that the bible says "thou shalt not kill". That's really rich coming from someone that is anti-life.
6. I don't waste my time with the Daily Kos, so I have no idea what a billo is, but if there is anything written on the Daily Kos, you can probably figure that it's false, outdated or intellectually lacking.
7. Third lie. I can't speak for Kevins, but my name is not Brett. Since he said he's not too, I'm more inclined to believe him than to believe you. But this is just an ongoing childish game that you play.
8. This one is perfect. The word verification that I have to type in to send this is "allydr". How appropriate when dealing with someone that is anti life.
I don’t think you do read very well, brett because I did point out the virtues of Dr. Tiller. I have never, ever went "into a frenzy,” and I have every right to express a difference of opinion with someone else. If that weren’t the case, I wouldn’t give you the opportunity to make a fool of yourself here.
Operation Rescue showed no compassion, and they created the atmosphere where people think it’s OK to commit violence against doctors and patients.
Of course Ms. Smith condoned the killing, and I saw zero remorse on her part. She called him a “monster,’ and then she has the nerve to say” And I do not feel sorry for a family who loved a murderer. And I sure do NOT feel sorry for a church that had no problem allowing a murderer to attend.” Clearly, that opinion condones violence
That’s compassion and condemning a murder of a respected doctor?
That is correct, I don’t whip up hate. I have never condoned violence against the terrorist group Operation Rescue like abortion terrorists have against health clinics, doctors and patients.
No, I am not “so stupid as to not understand the slavery analogy” because there is no analogy.
“Ask one of my little boyfriends to explain?” I’m getting a little of sick of those lies from a lying coward like you. You can’t win a debate, so you have to stoop that low. That just shows how sad and bankrupt of ideas you really are, brett.
1. First lie, you, Ms. Smith and abortion terrorist groups like “operation rescue” condoned the murder of the doctor. The rest of your “point” doesn’t deserve an answer.
2. That is true; I have never whipped up the hate like the abortion terrorist groups have to lead someone to think they would be a hero if they just shot Ms. Smith.
3. Please, finding a pro-choice Republican is like finding snow in July nowadays. Who the hell is Sherry Munsell? If you mean Susan Grimes Munsell, I notice is not very active in the GOP much anymore, as is Judy Scranton.
4. That is correct, that is terrorism plain and simple. When you intimidate someone to get others to stop doing the same thing, that is the very definition of terrorism. “Rare and hasn't happened in several years?’ In April 2007 a nail bomb is left in the car park of an Austin women's health centre in Texas, but found and defused, and last week Dr. Tiller is shot a second time by a terrorist, this time fatally. I don’t “coddle the terrorists,” domestic or foreign.
5. I’m not anti-life, I am pro-choice.
6. No problem, don’t waste your time on Daily Kos, and to make it easier for you there is nothing written: I know the problem you have with reading, brett. Just look at the video: those are O’reily’s words, not Daily Kos.
7. Whatever, brett.
8. See seven, brett.
What a disgusting little person you are, guru.
I brought up the fact that you have shown no compassion for Dr. Killer and his family. My point...which you verified...is that you are actually happy about his death because it gives you a way to extend your frenzied name-calling.
A responsible answer would have been to say that, yes, of course you grieve for his senseless family and your sympathies are with his family.
But even that basic humanity is beyond you. Instead, first you lie about making a statement of compassion. Then you say you showed compassion by pointing out his virtues, which was that he was a late-term (post viability) abortionist. But you never said a word of compassion about him. Ever. That's because you see him as nothing more than a useful propaganda tool.
Your failure to show compassion, and to admit it, proves again:
1. You will go to the ends of the earth to avoid admitting even the smallest error; which is ironic because you are frequently wrong.
2. You may well not have any compassion for him. He was useful for you when he was alive because he performed late-term abortions. He's useful for you in death because you use him as a launching pad for your diatribes against anything you label as rightwing.
Such a sad man, you are.
By the way, for those who may wonder, when someone catches guru in a lie or proves he said something stupid, guru calls him "brett."
Guru can't bear to admit his mistakes, so the way he owns up to them is with his silly code words.
It's childish, I agree, but at least it's a start.
Thank you, brett. Coming from a coward like you I take that as a compliment.
Guru, caught once again in his web of lies and deception, responds with his most effective technique: Name-calling.
But, again, I do appreciate that he is now, in his own way, admitting to his failures.
Also note, he refuses to show even a hint of compassion for the doctor who was murdered in Kansas. That doctor's life is valuable to guru as an exploitation tool. Pathetic.
(By the way, a favored guru technique is to link people because they have "ties" to the same organization. It is a conspiracy-fanatic's game. But let's use guru's game on himself. The notorious BTK killer in Wichita had "ties" to the same church as Dr. Tiller. Hmmm. See how weak your claims are. Many Germans, after all, have ties to the same country as Hitler.)
What's funny is that when other posters rightly point out that some Democrats are pursuing socialist agendas, he angrily denies it (which makes me think that such agenda are a problem), and then accuses Republicans of being fascists. Clearly he doesn't understand the term. Fascism has nothing to do with conservatism. In fact much of guru's agenda -- restricting individual rights, censoring opinions he doesn't like, telling other people how to live their lives -- have a air of fascism or totalitarianism about them.
What you are doing, brett, is little more than name-calling, and I’m wasting my time responding to it when I should be exposing more rightwing lies and hypocrisy. I certainly have shown compassion for a brave man, and I don’t consider smearing him like you and the righting terrorist groups are doing compassion.
Yes, fascism is directly related to conservatism - at least what is being practiced as conservatism today - and it’s you and the other small and shrinking minority that are falsely labeling fixing Bush’s mess a “socialist agenda.”
And it's another lie. First, you have never written a single word of compassion about Dr. Tiller or his family. I've challenged you to produce the quote; you have failed to do so and then start calling people names.
Also, show me one time that I have smeared Dr. Tiller. Your direct quote: "I don't consider smearing him like you." Show me one time that I've done that. You can't. I haven't. I consider his murder to be an unspeakable tragedy. You consider his murder to be an opportunity.
Based on your background, I would advise against exposing yourself anymore.
You are wrong again, brett. Like I said, you are a coward. Please, expose me. My background, like my name, is outlined in my profile. I challenge you to “expose” me.
You certainly did smear Dr. Tiller, brett.
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