Health Care Now 9th District in Oakland County is sponsoring a rally for health care reform at 11 a.m. Saturday Aug. 22 in Birmingham, across from Border's bookstore.
We are aware of the highly organized “tea baggers” and “birthers” stirred up by outrageous lies from the rightwing Washington, D.C. lobbyists groups and think tanks Americans for Prosperity” and “Freedom Works” – the same people behind the fake, Astroturf “tea parties – that have been hijacking Democratic townhall meetings and shouting down the Congressman and anyone who disagrees with them. This is a chance to join in the fight of our lives, and rightwing extremists have been fighting health care reform since 1961 with the introduction of popular Medicare.
Bring your friends, family and neighbors, and don’t forget your signs.
The rightwing blogs have been abuzz about Service Employees International Union (SEIU) allegedly busing in 100 members to a health care rally in Jackson near the office of U.S. Rep. Mark Schauer, D-Battle Creek. They made the explosive charge that there were “…rented vans and encouraged people to carpool to the event.” They use the usual “thug” labels for middle class working people who dared to band together to get a better shake from their employer, and they are even going as far as to steal the name “Astroturf.”.
I don’t see any union members or health care reform supporters trying to shout anyone down, and it was certainly not scripted by the insurance lobby like the Astroturf Townhall meetings are.
Oh my God, liberals and environmentalists car pooling to an event to show support for Schauer? Who would have thought that would happen? Working people rallying for health care reform when health care premiums for family plans have increased 78 percent in Michigan since 2000? Somebody better alert the corporate, conservative media. Stop the presses; I’ve wanted to say that since the first time I saw by byline in print.
Wow, this is their smoking gun? “…Rented vans and encouraged people to carpool to the event.” Wow. I’m stunned. I guess that dispels those polls that say 70 percent of Americans want health care reform is bunk, or that that the overwhelming victory in November when health care reform was a campaign issue was a fluke. Union members – regular working middle class people, not thugs – want health care reform, and it’s their union dues that paid for the van, if that story is true. It wasn’t money from the $1.4 million a day the insurance lobby is spending to kill real reform through rightwing lobbying groups like “Americans for Prosperity” and “Freedom Works.”
If this fails, the health insurance companies will continue to line their pockets at the expense of good medical care for the middle class, and if this passes, the majority of the 50 million U.S. citizens with no access to health care will be covered. The right is complaining about working people pooling their money to get out and fight back against misinformation, showing their support for a cause they have been fighting to gain for the past 50 years and to stop the shouting down of Democratic Congressman? Just sad.
What the right is really mad about is we are finally starting to fight back against their disgusting and disruptive tactics.
15 comments:
If the government wants to help in the health care issue why not allow citizens to purchase insurance out of state and adopt some sort of tort reform. That would be a easy 1st step and be no cost.
I don't think we as a nation should provide health care to illegals either.
Don't forget to attend the Tea party express.
http://www.teapartyexpress.org/tour/brighton.html
Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009
Time: 3:30pm - 5:00pm
Location:Mill Pond (by the gazebo)
Street:W. Main Street & Mill Pond Lane
City/Town:Brighton, MI
Because none of those things will help the 50 million without health insurance get it, nor will it lower the cost of health insurance that has increased 73 percent since 2000 in Michigan.
The nation isn’t providing “health care to 'illegals' either.”Nice racist photo. Don't come back with that.
Yes, hate the USA, don’t forget to attend the fake, Astroturf “tea party.” After all, we don’t want the $1.4 million a day the health insurance lobby is spending to keep their record profits to be wasted.
Here's another issue where guru is either uninformed or purposely lying.
Previously he posted repeatedly that Canadians never come to America for health care. Never. Doesn't happen. That's what he said.
Now comes a story in Sunday's Free Press that says Detroit-area hospitals do a booming business treating Canadians who otherwise would have lengthy waits for treatment on their side of the border.
Some of these are paid for by the Canadian government, since it is cheaper to use existing American resources than to provide their own...which means their costs would be higher in Canada if they couldn't rely on this supposedly terrible system in America. But even then, one patient interviewed in the story had to come up with $51,000 of his own money to cover expenses.
And the story referenced others who came over to Michigan for health care which wasn't compensated by the Canadian system.
Now there is a lot to digest is such stories, which is beyond guru's skill set. The Canadian system isn't proposed as part of Obamacare. Canadians are all covered, but some face unacceptably long waits for treatment, so much so that there is a special agency to try to deal with the issue.
But the main point is this: Guru will not argue a point on its merits. The Dems support something so it has to be all good and any criticism has to be ridiculed and lied about.
He said repeatedly that no Canadians come to American for healthcare treatment. It was a ridiculous statement, but typical for him.
There goes brett, continuing to stretch the truth and outright lie.
I don’t believe I ever said Canadians never come to America for health care. It happens on occasion, like I said, mostly for expensive specialty surgeries like cosmetic surgery.
Like ER doctor Dr. James C. Mitchiner said, “Mitchiner debunked some of the myths and Republican talking points on health care, such as the alleged long lines and waits in Canada. Mitchiner said that is a myth, and so is the myth that people from Canada cross the border to gain access to U.S. health care.”
People crossing to border hospitals are not crossing over to “gain access to U.S. health care.” They already have access to Canadian health care, and they are taking advantage of a nearby asset to help with the under funded Canadian system.
I do have to admit that I never knew there was such a border agreement in place, but it’s a good, smart system. The U.S. hospital’s get patients that they have a guarantee will pay their bill, and the Canadians ensure there is no wait for health care.
But your talking point that Canadians have “unacceptably long waits for treatment” is still not true, as is your myth that Canadians are crossing the border in a desperate attempt for treatment and are paying out of their own pocket.
You are such a liar. And you are so wrong. Where to begin.
How about: "I don't believe I ever said Canadians never come to America for health care." I said you made that claim repeatedly. Let's see the facts.
On one thread alone you said:
"Canadians wait no longer than Americans for health care, and they do not come into the U.S. for health care."
"It's a myth and a GOP talking point that people from Canada cross the border to gain access to the U.S. health system."
"Canadians are not crossing into the U.S. for treatment. The opposite is true."
"Canadians simply do not cross the border into the U.S. to seek treatment unless it's for cosmetic or other elective surgery. You have zero proof to back up your claims that they do come to the U.S."
So, you said it repeatedly, even though you now claim you didn't. Another lie.
What about your assertion that they only come here for cosmetic and elective surgery? Another lie.
For example, according to the Toronto Globe & Mail, since the spring of 2006, Ontario alone has sent at least 164 patients to New York and Michigan for neurosurgery emergencies such as broken necks, burst aneurysms, bleeding around the brain. Or, as guru calls them, cosmetic surgery.
Patients don't come here? About 300 of 400 international patients last year at the DMC came from Canada. Elective cases? "In the last few years we've seen more and more cardiac patients," according to a DMC doctor. Some are reimbursed by Canadian system, he said, and some are not.
Henry Ford said that Canadian patients last year provided $1 million in cardiac cases alone. Cardiac...is that cosmetic surgery?
You said, "Yes there was a problem with wait times in Canada 7 years ago and they took care of it." Are you lying or just ignorant? Canadians don't even claim they don't have a wait time problem.
Canada has waiting times for bariatric procedures that can stretch to more than 5 years, according the Canadian Journal of Surgery.
"The ministries are quite aware of waits for care in Sarnia and Hamilton," said a Windsor hospital administrator. She went on to say they have a "wait list strategy" because of backups for hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery and treatment for cancer. You know, cosmetic and elective surgery.
Look, I never said Canada had a bad system and I specifically pointed out that U.S. isn't proposing Canadian system. But Canada can't run its system without relying to some degree on American resources. Without American health care, Canada would either have to spend more or restrict access to health care.
But you can't handle the truth and you are too insecure to admit mistakes. You said there were NO Canadians coming to U.S. for health care. That's not true on 2 counts: One, you did say it, repeatedly; and, two, they are coming and not just for cosmetic or plastic surgery.
You also said there are no wait time issues in Canada. Another lie.
Can you admit you were wrong? Doubt it.
Thanks for the complaisant, brett, but it’s, again, simply not true.
The first part of the sentence is true, “Canadians wait no longer than Americans for health care.” However, I was unaware of this agreement between Canada and Michigan. But it certainly is not because Canadians are paying out of their pocket so they can get health care. It’s simply a referral. It seems to work well for both sides. Hospitals know for sure they will be reimbursed just like Medicare patients, and unlike with private insurers and the uninsured.
It is true that “Canadians simply do not cross the border into the U.S. to seek treatment unless it's for cosmetic or other elective surgery.” However, seeking treatment and a referral are two different animals.
Wow: 300 patients. What a floodgate.
No, Cardiac is not cosmetic surgery, it’s a referral.
Bariatric procedures? Find an insurance company that will pay for that. I’m guessing not many.
Yes, you did say Canada had a bad system. Amazing, and you accuse me of lying?
I certainly can handle the truth, Col. Jessup, on the rare occasion you present some. And I admit mistakes when I make them. Like I said before, people crossing to border hospitals are not crossing over to “gain access to U.S. health care.” They already have access to Canadian health care, and they are taking advantage of a nearby asset to help with the under funded Canadian system.
You were right, and I was wrong. There are people coming over to the U.S., but its all part of the Canadian health care system.
But I stand by the fact that there are no wait time issues in Canada, and they certainly not as bad as in Canada.
What I should do is ban you like Michigan Republican, Wrong Michigan and the “blogprof” do, but I can stand a little criticism.
The U.S. is not considering a Canadian style health care system, but they should.
I didn't know that I gave you a "complaisant." I assume that's another one of your many typos. But maybe not. It's actually a word, you know. But it's an adjective and I don't know how it could be appropriate in the way that you used it.
The agreement between US hospitals and Canadian health care may be a good agreement for both sides. But you ignore, or can't understand, the underlying truth: Canada has to rely on the U.S. health care system -- which you roundly criticize -- because Canada hasn't got the resources. You admit Canada's system is "under-funded" so to provide services, it has to rely on U.S. If U.S. had same system as Canada, then where would people go?
You blithely state that all U.S. hospital work on Canadians is covered by Canada's national health care when the freep story says just the opposite. And for one patient, who got life-saving treamtment over here that was initially denied in Canada, the Canadians eventually covered $200,000 in costs...and that patient had to come up with another $50,000. I'm not saying that's good or bad. It just "is."
300 is a lot when you were saying there were absolutely zero. And 300 comes out to 6 a week, which is a pretty decent number for one hospital in one city...again, you were saying there were no Canadians crossing the border. And you ignored the $1 million in heart care provided for Canadians in another hospital. Why is it that Canada can't provide these critical services?
You said repeatedly that absolutely no Canadians crossed the border for health care. Period. Now you've restated your position (is someone coaching you?), but the fact remains that Canada is unable to provide the care under its system so it has to go to the U.S. Thank goodness the U.S. system is here for them.
And what about the 146 emergency neurosurgery cases in New York and Michigan that Canada couldn't handle? They may have paid for them (or not, I don't know), but they didn't have the resources to do them. Had it not been for the U.S. system that you malign, those people would have died waiting for Canadian care that doesn't exist.
I don't know what to make of a sentence like: "There are no wait time issues in Canada, and certainly not as bad as in Canada." Are there two Canadas. Or was this another typo perhaps? Maybe if you would buy insurance, you would be able to get back on your meds.
I'll assume the second "Canada" was supposed to be U.S. Even so, your sentence makes no sense. You say "there are no wait time issues" but then you say they aren't as bad as in U.S. You contradict yourself in a few words. Are there or are there not wait time issues in Canada? If not, then are you saying the Windsor hospital adminsitrator and the Canadian Journal of Surgery are incorrect? If so, how do you support your claim? And why is Canada prioritizing health care in order to deal with wait time? And why are there wait time issues in Sarnia and Hamilton?
And if you are saying there are wait times (which you just said don't exist), but they are not as bad as in U.S., how do you support that claim?
Are you kidding about bariatric prodecures? Do you even know what they are? Why do you think they aren't covered by insurance in U.S.? It's a growing line of business in America and it most certainly is covered by many insurances.
I don't recall saying Canada had a bad system. I do recall listing problems with it; I can list problems about U.S. system as well. But I don't recall calling it a bad system. If you can show me that I did, I'll acknowledge it and retract that statement. But your statement alone isn't enough. After all, you are the guy who said that Canadians never cross the border for health care. And then you said you never said that. And then you said you did say that but then you added qualifications and then...oh, never mind. Show me where I said Canada had a bad system.
It’s compliment, brett.
Yes, the agreement between U.S. hospitals and Canadian health care is a good agreement for both sides, and it has nothing to do with the quality of care in Canada. What exactly does this prove? The Canadian system is better because everyone has access to the health care system.
I found no where in the Freep story about a patient “who got life-saving treatment over here that was initially denied in Canada.”
http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/
No, 300 is not a lot, when you consider 50 million Americans do not have access to health care.
Is someone coaching me? Sure. The fact is All Canadians have access to lice-saving health care, and they use every asset to ensure that access.
You've finally convinced me. All Canadians have access to "lice-saving" health care. That's a benefit that no one should be without. Think of all the lice that aren't saved in America. It's a disgrace, I tell you.
What do they do with all those saved lice. Is there a farm where they tend to them? Or what?
There are millions and millions of lice without a safety net in America. But their Canadian counterparts are resting easy.
Good point, guru. Probably the best one you've made.
I can't figure you out. Are you that much of a liar? Are you that stupid? Are you unable to read? All of the above?
You couldn't find anything in that article about a patient who got life-saving treatment here that was initially denied in Canada? Really?
It was near the beginning (6th paragraph) of a 1,000 word story. And you couldn't find it? Really?
Here it is: Go to the library and have someone read it to you. There are pictures, too. You should like that.
And I quote: "Dany Mercado, a leukemia patient from Kitchener, Ontario, is cancer-free after getting a bone marrow transplant at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute in Detroit.
"Told by Canadian doctors he couldn't have the procedure, Mercado's family and doctor appealed to Ontario health officials, who agreed to let have the transplant in Detroit in January 2008.
"The Karmanos Institute is one of several Detroit health facilities that care for Canadians needing services not widely available in Canada."
Not widely available in Canada. Do you realize what that means? It means the Canadian health system...however well it works...only works because they don't have to invest in the resources that are available here. If the United States had the same system as Canada, then neither country would have the resources. Poor Dany Mercado.
Let's put it in terms you might understand.
Let's say you notice that the grass is quite long. So you tell your wife to mow the lawn. Only problem: you don't own a lawn mower.
So she once again goes to the neighbor, who has a real job and makes enough money to own a lawn mower. He's a nice guy. So he again lets your wife borrow the mower, but he asks her to pay for the gas she uses.
In your mind, your household has a great system for getting the lawn mowed. But it only works because your neighbor has a lawn mower. If he were as lazy and unmotivated as you, he wouldn't have a lawn mower either. So you would have enough money to by gas, but no lawn mower. Like Canada depends on U.S. to have health care resources, you depend on your neighbor for the lawn mower.
To make the analogy work even more, you then criticize your neighbor because the only reason he has money to buy a lawn mower is because he works for an evil, for-profit corporation. And he makes more money than you. And that's just wrong. Your solution could be for you to go out and make enough money to buy your own mower. But no, your solution is for him to make less money so that he can't afford a lawn mower either.
Now how do you cut the lawn?
By the way, please tell me where I said Canada had a bad health care system. If I said that, I want to retract it and correct my errors.
You are just being stupid by comparing 300 to 50 million (that number, like your nose, keeps growing). I mentioned the 300 at ONE hospital because you said NO Canadians came over here. That was one hospital in one city in one state. The total number is much greater.
You have ignored the patients who needed emergency neuro-surgery treatment and had to come to America. I wonder why you never address that one. Probably because it shows how wrong you've been...or maybe you still think that a caring for a broken neck is elective surgery.
I can't figure you out. Are you that much of a liar? Are you that stupid? Are you unable to read? All of the above?
You made the claim that the Canadian health care system did not cover this person’s health care. In fact, you said
“You blithely state that all U.S. hospital work on Canadians is covered by Canada's national health care when the freep story says just the opposite. And for one patient, who got life-saving treatment over here that was initially denied in Canada.”
You are wrong, and the freep story did not “say just the opposite.” The Canadian government did, in fact, cover his health care, and I still can’t find anywhere in the freep story where it says that all U.S. hospital work on Canadians is not covered by Canada's national health care because it doesn’t.
Now, you’re making up stuff to bash Canada’s health care system.
Please remember I did say you had a point on the "lice-saving" aspects of Canadian health care.
Now you are making up stuff about me...you are a liar, and a pathetic one at hat.
I said the Canadian government "initially" refused to cover the treatment. That's true and I quoted the story word for word. You are the liar.
You will NOT find anything that says all U.S. hospital work on Candadians is not covered by Canada's health care because the story doesn't say that and I never said it did. I DID say that of the Canadians coming to Michigan for health care, some came for care that was covered by Canada and some came for care that wasn't covered. The story didn't offer any more details.
Again, you ignore the fact that a Toronto newspaper reported that a MINIMUM of 146 Canadians had to come to America (Michigan and New York) for emergency brain surgery because Canada can't offer it. I suspect Canada's health care picked up the cost...but the only reason the treatment was available is because America had the resources; Canada doesn't. That, to me, shows a critical hole in Canada's system...it only works if it has U.S.A. as a neighbor.
I can see why brain surgery isn't a high priority for you, but others might find it a critical treatment option...not costmetic or elective surgery as you like to call it.
You refuse to address this issue because you don't have an answer.
I have not bashed the Canadian health system. I've tried to describe it and I've give opinions as to its strengths and weaknesses.
You lie about me and you lie about the Canadian health system.
You are, after all, the one that says its best asset is that it saves "lice".
Has your wife mowed the lawn yet? Tell her to be careful...you don't have health care insurance for her.
Sorry, Brett, I don’t make stuff up, I don’t lie nor am I a “pathetic one at (sic) hat.” I guess that makes for my use of lice for life.
You are correct; you did say the “Canadian government "initially" refused to cover the treatment.” So, I don’t see the point of that? It was covered. When an insurance company turns down a treatment, what recourse do you have? The answer is none.
I’m ignoring “the fact that a Toronto newspaper reported that a MINIMUM of 146 Canadians had to come to America (Michigan and New York) for emergency brain surgery because Canada can't offer it” because it was not in the freep article. Even if it were true, so what?
I agree with Dr. Uwe Reinhardt, a Princeton University health economist who has studied the U.S. and Canadian health systems, said arrangements with cities like Detroit "are a terrific way to manage capacity" given Canada's smaller health care budget.
“This is efficient," he said. "At least in Canada, you don't worry about going broke to pay for health care. You do here."
http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/
Very true. The only hole in the Canadian system is they don’t spend nearly the amount we spend on health care, yet all of its citizens get excellent care that does not bankrupt them. We could spend less than the 16 percent of GDP we spend now and still cover the 50 million Americans with no access to health care and eliminate the number one cause of bankruptcies in the U.S.
Once again, brett, the majority of Canadians coming across the border for care they cannot get in Canada is elective and cosmetic. The brain surgery is covered care they are, in the words of Dr. Uwe Reinhardt, using as a way to manage capacity.
You have bashed the Canadian health system at every opportunity.
You are, after all, the one that says a pathetic one at “hat.”
My wife doesn’t mow the lawn, and it has nothing to do with this “debate,” other than it’s just another personal attack from you because the facts, again, are not on your side.
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