The local newspaper finally picked up on the fact that the Livingston County Republican Party was trying to influence the Brighton Area Schools bond issue that was defeated on Election Day.
Better late than never, but it certainly let the party chair get off with a lame excuse; letting him claim that the predominate party in the county was not advocating for the election but simply allowing the opponents of the bond issue to store the campaign signs there.
A group calling itself "Parents Union Local No. 1" that is made up of members of the county party’s executive committee advocated for the defeat of the bond issue, and according to the article, Allan Filip, chair of the party, claims the party did not take a position. Right, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.
The question the reporter or editor at the Livingston County Daily Press & Argus who wrote the piece should have asked is of the group operated by party officials is registered as a Political Action Committee or a ballot committee. In order to spend money to influence the outcome of an election must, which they admitted they paid for the signs, they must be registered.
The school district was seeking a $15 million bond for buses and technology, and a separate capital projects sinking fund on the Nov. 4 ballot. With the bond funds, the school would have purchased 1,600 new computers and 46 new school buses. While this is not entirely a new millage, it replaces an old one with a slightly higher millage.
The combined building millage and the technology/bus bond would equal about 1 mill, which is slightly higher than the building/sinking fund millage rate that expired in 2007. That millage rate was 0.9 mills, or 90 cents in taxes per each $1,000 of taxable value." It would have cost the owner of a $200,000 house $100 a year or about 28 cents a day.
That still would have left homeowners - in the most affluent area in one of the most affluent counties in the state - with the lowest school millage in Livingston County. Without those needed improvements, it will become more difficult to compete for school-of-choice students, causing the district to lose even more funding.
What is even more stunning is in light of the newspaper’s failure to ask a basic question, is an editorial in the same issue blaming the school board for the ballot failure because of the teacher’s contract they approved in April that gave teacher’s whopping 1.13 percent to 2.26 percent raise over three years, offset by requiring teacher’s to pay for their own health care.
“Tired of the fact that its school board steadfastly spends money it doesn't have, voters in the Brighton Area Schools district resoundingly defeated two requests for new taxes Tuesday,” the editorial begins.
Generally, editorials advocate for something, but I’m not sure what this one is advocating for. Being one of the most affluent communities in the area, it would make sense that in order to live here teachers need to make a decent salary. Many teachers live outside the community, but with zero mass transit opportunities they have to drive in to work. I know the price of gasoline has fallen steadily from its high marl of more than $4 a gallon, but I don’t think that’s going to continue. Teachers in Brighton are not even the highest paid in the county. That honor belongs to teachers in Pinckney Community Schools.
The editorial then goes after board member Joe Carney, who is a friend of mine. It calls him, “veteran board member Joe Carney.” I’m not sure how veteran a first-term board member can really be.
“Did the school board get the message? Not if the response by veteran board member Joe Carney is typical. As the thrashing of the tax issues became apparent election night, Carney deflected any responsibility from the school board. The fault, he said, belonged squarely on the back of recently departed Superintendent Jim Craig.”
The editorial goes on further to quote Carney, "I lay this on the very poorly ran campaign to get this done," Carney told our reporter. "The guy (Craig) that was supposed to be leading the parade, who recommended we do this, his mind was elsewhere."
Amazing. And wrong.”
I disagree. The superintendent is the one who recommended the millage. Plus, before being named superintendent he was the assistant superintendent for finance. His job is to sell the mileage within the constraints of campaign finance law. It seems a little suspect that in the most affluent district in the county he can’t sell a much needed millage that will cost homeowners a mere 28 cents a day. Instead, he was looking for a new job.
Clearly, that’s not the only reason for the defeat. The teacher’s contract, wrongly, contributed to the loss, but when the party that controls every political office in the county from U.S. Congress down to 90 percent of the township positions advocates for the defeat of a common sense proposal, some of the blame should be placed at their feet.
That’s where the newspaper should look, and they failed.
94 comments:
For a Democrat, you often have a low opinion of the democratic process.
Something like 60 percent of the voters cast ballots against the tax. Seems to me that the tax-paying, voting public had the final say.
If Brighton has the lowest tax rate, it's because it has the highest tax base...commercial and retail development...and not because of any good practices by the school district.
But if you are going to mention these facts, why not mention that when it comes to school funding, Brighton has the HIGHEST funding per pupil in Livingston County. The highest. Yet it adopts deficit budgets and has run out of money. Voters are saying they will no longer support such mismanagement.
As for those meager raises, you ignore the number of county folks who have gotten no raises or have lost their jobs or who have been forced to take lower paying jobs...with benefits far less generous than those given to teachers.
And you misrepresent the raises. Well over half the teachers still get "experience" or "step" raises which average at least 4-5 percent IN ADDITION to the contract improvement. That means that these teachers have been getting annual 6-7 percent raises over the life of the contract. Not bad. Some, in fact, are getting double-digit raises...you can look up the contract online.
Teachers are surely worth the investment, but fewer and fewer people are buying the argument that they are mistreated with a $70,000 job, 187-day work year, and great benefits.
Republicans didn't defeat the tax hike; voters did. You can arrogantly ignore them and say they are too stupid (selfish? cheap?) to know better, but then you are tone deaf to the electorate...just like Mr. Carney.
No, I respect the Democratic process, but we should have informed voters; but they should have the truth. I don’t think the most powerful political party in the county running a sneaky, stealth campaign against the ballot issue is respecting the democratic process.
“If Brighton has the lowest tax rate, it's because it has the highest tax base...commercial and retail development...and not because of any good practices by the school district.” I’m not sure Brighton has the highest commercial and retail development in the county. But if it does, that makes turning down the ballot proposal even more disgusting. The more people, the more the cost is spread around.
My argument is with the underhanded role of the county GOP. So what if Brighton has the highest foundation grant in the county? It’s $39 more dollars per student. When the price of fuel to transport students goes through the roof, it’s hard to blame the school board for mismanagement. When the cost of food and feeding students goes through the roof, its hard to blame the school board for mismanagement.
How many people who have not gotten raises or lost jobs should have nothing to do with another person getting a small raise. The CEO of bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings raked in $34,382,036 in total compensation, but you’re up in arms over a 2.5 percent raise?
I don’t believe I am misrepresenting the raises. If you have proof of your claim go ahead and present it.
Republicans did have an effect on an election. I never said the voters were stupid or selfish, just the leaders of the Republican Party in this county.
No, I respect the Democratic process, but we should have informed voters; but they should have the truth. I don’t think the most powerful political party in the county running a sneaky, stealth campaign against the ballot issue is respecting the democratic process.
“If Brighton has the lowest tax rate, it's because it has the highest tax base...commercial and retail development...and not because of any good practices by the school district.” I’m not sure Brighton has the highest commercial and retail development in the county. But if it does, that makes turning down the ballot proposal even more disgusting. The more people, the more the cost is spread around.
My argument is with the underhanded role of the county GOP. So what if Brighton has the highest foundation grant in the county? It’s $39 more dollars per student. When the price of fuel to transport students goes through the roof, it’s hard to blame the school board for mismanagement. When the cost of food and feeding students goes through the roof, its hard to blame the school board for mismanagement.
How many people who have not gotten raises or lost jobs should have nothing to do with another person getting a small raise. The CEO of bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings raked in $34,382,036 in total compensation, but you’re up in arms over a 2.5 percent raise?
I don’t believe I am misrepresenting the raises. If you have proof of your claim go ahead and present it.
Republicans did have an effect on an election. I never said the voters were stupid or selfish, just the leaders of the Republican Party in this county.
No, I respect the Democratic process, but we should have informed voters; but they should have the truth. I don’t think the most powerful political party in the county running a sneaky, stealth campaign against the ballot issue is respecting the democratic process.
“If Brighton has the lowest tax rate, it's because it has the highest tax base...commercial and retail development...and not because of any good practices by the school district.” I’m not sure Brighton has the highest commercial and retail development in the county. But if it does, that makes turning down the ballot proposal even more disgusting. The more people, the more the cost is spread around.
My argument is with the underhanded role of the county GOP. So what if Brighton has the highest foundation grant in the county? It’s $39 more dollars per student. When the price of fuel to transport students goes through the roof, it’s hard to blame the school board for mismanagement. When the cost of food and feeding students goes through the roof, its hard to blame the school board for mismanagement.
How many people who have not gotten raises or lost jobs should have nothing to do with another person getting a small raise. The CEO of bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings raked in $34,382,036 in total compensation, but you’re up in arms over a 2.5 percent raise?
I don’t believe I am misrepresenting the raises. If you have proof of your claim go ahead and present it.
Republicans did have an effect on an election. I never said the voters were stupid or selfish, just the leaders of the Republican Party in this county.
You are criticizing the voters; you just don't want to own up to it. They turned it down overwhelmingly. Are you suggesting they didn't know what they were doing? Were they brainwashed by a few orange signs that only said "vote no." What untruth was unleashed upon the voters?
You seem unconcerned with facts, so I'm probably wasting my time with these:
1. You aren't sure if Brighton has the most retail and commercial tax base in the county. Really? You think maybe downtown Pinckney has more perhaps. Look at retail at Challis Road and Green Oak; the county doesn't have much manufacturing but Brighton school district has a lot of it; Brighton City has considerable tax base compared to any other county commmunity. Only Howell could compare which is why Howell has second lowest school bond rate, even with the recent bond to build that $70 million white elephant.
2. High tax base means the cost is spread around so it is "disgusting" it was turned down. No matter how you cut it, you are saying the majority voters were "disgusting." You just want to switch that name-calling to the Republicans who, other than passing out signs, appear to have nothing to do with the school election. By the way, a mill is still a mill regardless of how many other people are paying it. Because their homes are valued at more, people who live in Brighton are paying more per mill than anyone else in the county.
3. You say Brighton's funding advantage is only $39 a student. That's selectively using data. There is one school district (Hartland) that is only $39 behind Brighton...but it's still lower than Brighton and it's not in a deficit; so with slightly less, Hartland can balance its budget. The other 3 districts get even less, up to a couple hundred dollars per students less. PLUS, until last year, Brighton also had a sinking-fund tax which provided the equivalent of another $200 per student. So Brighton is easily the highest funded district in the county...and at the moment it's the only one that is broke. That's what ticks off voters. (Pretty soon, though, others could be in the same boat if your beloved governor keeps cutting back school funding that was promised. Let's see, the Dems got their new tax and still can't provide promised funding to schools. Yeah, that's so much less "disgusting" than a few orange signs.)
4. If you don't want to look up the facts, that's your problem. But if you don't understand how step schedules work, then you are clueless when it comes to discussing school finance. For far more than half of Brighton's teachers, a 2.5 percent raise would amount to an actual pay increase of 6.5-7.5 percent. You can see for yourself at the Brighton Education Association web site.
4. Your Lehman Bros. comment is infantile. I'm outraged by his payoff, but it has nothing to do with a district that spends more money than it has. I'm not outraged an any teacher's salary. I am outraged that the Brighton board has chosen to pay its teachers comparatively top of the line salaries when by its own admission it can't afford necessary bus purchases.
5. You say Pinckney teachers are best paid in county. But that's only if you count just wages. If you add benefits, I think Brighton has the best compensated teachers. I don't begrudge them a dime. But I think the budget should be balanced.
6. Besides, Brighton didn't need the money to purchase buses, buy computers or fix roofs. The president of the BEA says Brighton schools has the money and always has had it. So why should voters approve money to a school that doesn't need it? So now that the evil Jim Craig is gone, maybe your buddy Carney can get some of that hidden money out from underneath the mattress and buy some buses.
7. One question. Is there a school tax that you would ever be against? For that matter, is there any tax that you would be against?
Guru, you really need to make your mind up.
You spend all your time telling us that the county Republicans are so incompetent that they couldn't organize a one-car parade ... and then you give them credit for shrewdly masterminding the overwhelming defeat of a millage request that should have passed with ease.
Seriously, Guru - have an argument with your Inner Guru and make up your mind here.
I don’t agree with every decision voters make, and I don’t see how that’s a bad thing. But still, I think they would have made the right decision with the right information.
1. That’s your opinion that Brighton has more commercial and retail development. I would venture to guess the Genoa Township corridor alone has more than Brighton.
2. I still don’t think 28 cents a day is too much to pay for educating kids.
3. Again, you’re offering up a lot of your opinions with zero facts. I can give you the link where the per pupil foundation grants are listed. You keep talking about this deficit budget, but state law says a budget has to be balanced or risk state takeover. It may cut into the ending fund balance, but it’s not a deficit budget. You are correct, “until last year, Brighton also had a sinking-fund tax which provided the equivalent of another $200 per student,” but it cannot be used for school operation. Brighton is losing funding because of declining enrollment. Schools are in a situation where they have to spend money to get funding. I think all the districts are “broke.” My beloved governor does not control the budget. I don’t know how she can be blamed for the state’s largest employer losing market share and cutting jobs. Without jobs people don’t spend money, and the sales tax provides the bulk of school funding. She is the only governor who has had to actually diversify the state’s economy.
4. Wait, you make a claim that you can’t back up, and it’s my responsibility to prove your point? I don’t think so.
4. No, your point that teacher’s should not get a raise because other people are not is infantile.
5. Yes, I say Pinckney teachers are best paid in county. Here’s proof,
www.livingstondaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=99999999&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr=70516024&Ref=AR
Now, show me the proof of your claim that Brighton has the best compensated teachers.
6. I don’t know anything about the BEA’s claim, but I know you can’t pay teachers out of the same fund that pays for capitol needs, like buses and buildings.
7. I don’t particularly like paying school taxes, but schools are community assets, and education is what is going to drive the economic engine of this state.
I don’t recall saying Republicans are “so incompetent that they couldn't organize a one-car parade.” They are OK at campaigning, but they sure can’t govern. It’s wrong when the majority party illegally campaigns in a nonpartisan election.
Tell me again, how did the Republicas "illegally campaign" in a nonpartisan election? By passing out signs? By expressing an opinion? By voting No? That's illegal, in your opinion?
How about the still unidentified Democrat who, according to Sunday's Free Press, funded Hathaway's defeat of Taylor in a nonpartisan state Supreme Court race. You telling me Democrats weren't behind that. That's okay, I guess, but it's illegal for some people, who happen to be Republicans, to be against a millage.
You failed to answer a key question. Can you envision a tax hike that you would oppose? Because if you are in favor of allof them, then discussion with you is futile.
Assuming you truly want some facts, here are a few:
1. Straight from the BEA contract: An 8th-year teacher last year made $58,832 for a 187-day work year. This year, that teacher makes $62,698. That's a $3,866 raise, or a raise of 6.5 percent. That's just one sample. Well more than half of the teaching staff have similar stories.
2. If you are were hired as a Brighton teacher within a few years out of college and you are in your mid- to late-30s, you are making at least $69,000 at Brighton and as much as $81,000. Plus you have top-of-the-line benefits that cost you virtually nothing. I'm not saying if that's good or bad, but I suspect few people think that 6.5 percent raises and $70K a year with great benefits is all that bad. Plus you can retire at 55 with full benefits.
3. You either don't understand basic finance or you don't care about facts. It's a deficit budget anytime your expenses are greater than your revenue...even if you have a savings account to handle the difference. Brighton's done this for years...and, as is inevitable...the money has run out. Brighton still has a deficit budget AND it has drained its fund equity. Check with your buddy Mr. Carney on this. The only way it will get through this year is by borrowing, which leads to..
4. "Markers." You either are willing to lie or you aren't paying attention. Brighton doesn't have a balanced budget. They pretended to submit one by placing "markers" for unspecified cuts. What they said is: We have to make $2 million in cuts but we won't and can't tell you where they are. They still haven't. The state won't "take over" the district but it will require it to submit a plan to get back to a balanced budget. But that plan will be a farce as long as expenses are greater than revenue. It's basic math, but the board won't face up to it. what they will do is continually borrow, putting another expense in their budget that will cost services to kds.
5. I said Pinckney teachers were the highest paid. But I said Brighton had the best compensated teachers when you include the cost of benefits. It's a small point either way...Brighton schools have done well by its teachers. It's the students who are getting shortchanged.
6. I never said teachers should not get a raise. It's typical of you to twist and distort. I did say that raises are generally much higher than the 1-2 percent contract improvement that you keep referring to, since other raises are already baked in. I did say that you can't run a ship properly unless expenses are in line with revenue. Like you, Brighton can't or won't accept that and the voters said, "NO MORE." You can't accept that, and you won't criticize the voters, so you blame the Republicans.
7. Genoa has a lot of commercial development and some of that is in the Brighton school district. I suspect you are referring to the Latson Road area, which is in Howell district. Brighton and Howell are first and second in tax base..and the order may be reversed. It doesn't really matter. The point is that the greater commercial tax base is the reason that Brighotn and Howell have the lowest debt rates in the county. It has nothing to do with effective boards. Otherwise, you must think Howell is great at master planning for building a $70 million school that it can't use and doesn't need.
8. I know a lot more about school financing than you do. And I know the difference between operating funds and bond funds. The point with the former sinking fund is this: Brighton was able to use those funds to purchase items that otherwise would have come out of the general fund, leaving more for wages. You don't have to take my word for this; it's a fact. Also, the Brighton Education Association sent the same message to its members. They told teachers to vote for the millage so that there would be more money in the general fund for raises. The Brighton board as well as conceded that it used to fund buses out of the general fund but quit doing so because it had to pay for labor contracts. So they chose wages over buses and then had the gall to suggest voters weren't interested in kids' safety if they didn't increase taxes. And still they couldn't balance the budget.
9. Facts are facts. Brighton has the highest funding per student in the county. On top of that, they had for 10 years the an extra tax that provided the equivalent of an additional $200 per student. Yet they still can't balance their budget and they've drained their savings account.
10. The last of the top 10 list. Do you think voters were selfish to turn it down? Or do you think they were so stupid that they were duped by a few orange signs that only said "vote no?" Or how else do you explain the tax defeat? Since you apparently won't accept the fact that a large percentage of voters said this was the way to show their dissatisfaction with the way the board is running the district. It's democracy; something you don't appear to like very much.
The Republican Party illegally campaigned in a nonpartisan election by spending money to influence that election. The signs are only what we know about, and they were only discovered by accident thanks to their stupidly or arrogance.
I don't know anything about the unidentified Democrat who, according to Sunday's Free Press, funded Hathaway's defeat of Taylor in a nonpartisan state Supreme Court race. As usual no link. Perhaps you can post that on your blog. It's not illegal to contribute to a nonpartisan race. The Republicans can as individuals be against a millage all they want, but when they spend their money and resources to stealthy influence a nonpartisan election them it crosses a line. I didn't fail to answer any questions, let alone a "key question," nor am I obligated to do so.
Sure, I'll take facts, but you have presented zero, and this latest post didn't produce any either.
1. Where's the fact here?
2. See above.
3. Wrong. This year the Brighton budget will be in a deficit if they don't find the necessary cuts.
4. See above.
5. Pinckney teachers are the highest paid. I provided a link. Should I provide it again? If you have something that shoes otherwise, please give me the link.
6. Yes the Republicans are partially responsible. There aren't enough partisan elections they can influence without trying to make nonpartisan races a farce? You never "said teachers should not get a raise?" Then what’s the point of all your rants?
7. Brighto9n has the lowest millage rat in the county. That's a point you can't muddy. It makes no sense to not only approved a much needed capitol millage, but take away a funding source away aw well when you already have the lowest millage rate in the county.
8. If you want to believe that, fine. I also know the difference between operating funds and bond funds. You are correct; I'm not taking your word for anything.
9. You are again correct, facts are facts, and the only one you have actually presented is Brighton has the highest funding per student in the county. There are school districts in Wayne and Oakland counties that get more than $10,000 per student, and some even have enhancement millages. There are few things more important than funding public education – in my opinion, of course, and an extra 28 cents a day doesn't seem like a lot of money. As for the $200 extra per student, prove it.
10. Yes, I disagree with voters. You apparently also disagree with the voters in Howell who voted for the bond to fund Parker High School, so why can’t I disagree with the voters who turned down this millage? I don't think they were stupid, and the "few orange signs" is only what we know about. They could have been conducting phone banks out of the "victory center" where the signs were stored and distributed. I "don't appear to like democracy very much" because I don't agree with a vote? What pure bullshit. How about voting for the opponents of the board members who voted to put it on the ballot to send a message instead of voting to hold back that extra 28 cents a day to help keep kids safe. It's me who doesn't like democracy very much, but you are condoning illegal campaign tactics. Why don't you run for school board since you know so much about school financing?
I prove it and I give you the facts and you just ignore them and say they aren't facts. Amazing.
I show you specifically, straight from the BEA contract, that teachers got a 6.5 percent raise. And you say I haven't give you a fact.
I draw salaries directly from the contract, and you ignore it.
Brighton does indeed have a deficit budget. You either won't or can't comprehend that. It's had a deficit budget for at least 5 straight years. The board is now getting ready to meet with the state to be designated as a deficit district. These are all facts.
You keep saying Pney teachers are the highest paid as though you are making some huge point. I agree. They are the highest paid in the county. Brighton is second highest. What I've said..and what you choose to ignore...is that Brighton teachers are the highest compensated...that includes benefits. It's from the state department of education web site.
You are so full of it and call it facts. You say the Republicans acted illegally but fail to provide one iota of proof. Quoting you: "the signs are only what we know about." and "they could have been conducting phone banks." Yes, and you could be molesting small children at swimming pools, but that doesn't mean you are. You have nothing but you still throw out the accusations. Some people didn't want the taxes to pass and you make it an organized stealth campaign by the Republican Party.
What exactly is the illegal campaign tactic that I condoned? I never did. You are a liar and when trapped you resort to vulgarity.
As for the .28 a day argument, that type of argument can be used for any tax hike anywhere. Which means, I guess, that you support all tax hikes.
But let's use your argument with the school board. Over the last 10 years, they've adopted $60 million budgets yet couldn't find any money to replace school buses. Had they budgeted $150,000 a year, they could have replaced 2 buses a year, which would mean 20 new ones by now (half the fleet, and the amount they were going to buy immediately had the bond passed). How much is $150,000 in a $60 million budget? It's equivalent to $100 a year for a person making $40,000 (which is less than any Brighton teacher makes). $100 a year is the same as .27 a day. So, using your argument, the Brighton school board could have set aside the equivalent of 27 cents a day from its budget and the district could have its buses without a tax hike. They chose not to; the voters are saying they didn't like that much.
I don't know how else I can explain Brighton's funding advantage over other county districts. You either don't understand or don't want to. Brighton straight out has a higher foundation grant that any other county district. Hartland is close behind; the others are further behind. Besides that, Brighton had for 10 years a sinking fund millage than raised about $2 million a year. Divide that by the number of students and it adds up to more than $200 per student. Yes, Brighton's foundation grant is less than some suburban schools, particularly in Oakland. But it's as high or higher than most schools in the state. The top foundation grant is about $8300, but not many schools are that high. Most fall into the 7200-7700 area. Brighton is funded as well or better than at least 75 percent of the state schools and better than any other school district in Livingston County. It's a fact.
Those hold harmless districts are few and far between and they are the ones with $12,000 per student. They get that by taxing themselves. Brighton isn't allowed to do that, not that it matters. If Brighton voters won't pass a one-mill tax or if they vote down a 3-mill enhancement tax, why would you think they would vote even higher taxes to match the funding of a Bloomfield Hills.
And for the record, I don't disagree with the voters in Howell. They believed what their board and administration told them. They were hoodwinked. Brighton voters seemed to have learned from that.
No, you have given me your opinion, not facts. I can say anything I want, but unless I have something to back it up it up it's just my opinion. I can say Brighton teachers pay 100 percent of their health care costs, and I can say it comes straight from the BEA contract.
If they have a fund balance, which is used to balance the budget, it's not a deficit budget. I understand that they have been able to balance that budget using the ending fund balance. If that's not the case then perhaps you can provide something that says otherwise.
Yes, I choose to ignore your claim that Brighton teachers are the "highest compensated" because you have not presented anything to prove that claim.
My opinion is the Republicans acted illegally to influence a nonpartisan election. The leader or spokesman of this group that operated out of the GOP headquarters and consisted of county GOP board members admitted he spent money to influence the election. That's a fact unless this Conley guy is lying. I also provided a link to back that up. I guess you can call me a child molester all you want. That's a typical Republican smear, and I'm acustomed to it. In fact, this is probably the same guy who did before. Are you honestly saying the county Republican Party was not involved in this election?
If the words bullshit offends you then go somewhere else. This is a PG blog. Your ridiculous claim that I "don't appear to like democracy very much" is pure bullshit, and that's the best word I can use to describe it. If you refuse to call out the Republican Party for trying to influence a nonpartisan election and acting as a ballot committee then you are condoning an illegal campaign tactic, in my opinion.
The voters in Howell were not hoodwinked. The second high school is needed. The biggest problem is they do not have the money to operate two high schools, but that does not mean the need is not there.
Illegal? There's nothing illegal about partisans getting involved in "nonpartisan" elections even if what you said is true.
As long as the normal election laws are followed, there's no illegal activity.
I beg to differ. So the Livingston Country Republican Party is registered as a ballot committee?
All the Livingston GOP would have to do even if they paid for the signs would be to report the expenditure as an in-kind to the committee formed to fight this.
I doubt that happened. Even the GOP formally opposed the 2005 enhancement millage, it did not spend any money in the race. I think the ballot committee dropped signs off at GOP HQ for those who wanted to take them with them. I don't know that for a fact, but that's my assumption.
My assumption is they not only paid for the signs, they did more than that. How power hungry can you get? If you want to make the elections partisan, change the law. Don't hide.
Well, I can see why guru wants to hide from facts since it is possible that he could have molested children. I'm not saying there are any facts, but I can assume that he might have done so. And he has provided no proof that he hasnt'...not even a link.
Everything I said about the teachers contract and school funding is certifiable fact. Google Brighton teachers contract or Michigan school funding if you want. I even spelled out the exact pay and how the step system works. It's not my fault if you can't understand. It's not my job to do your research for you.
Or ask Joe Carney. He knows everything I've written is true.
Your assertions about the county Republican party and the school election are ludicrous. Even though school board elections are nonpartisan, that doesn't mean that partisan groups can't endorse or oppose them. You are a lunatic to suggest otherwise.
You have produce not once bit of proof that the Republicans acted illegally, but you are fine with making that accusation...not as an opinion, but as fact. Your quote: "it is wrong when the majority party illegally campaigns in a nonpartisan election." Back it up, big guy. What law did they break? What proof do you have? Talk about unfounded smears. If the head of the county party and every Republican wants to issue an opinion about a nonpartisan issue, that's their democratic right (something you apparently don't cotten too.) Democrats opposed Cliff Taylor. No problem with that. That's their democratic right. Although at least one is shy about the money he spent to help Hathaway. Apparently you don't see that as a stealth issue, but you imagine one with the local GOP. Again, you criticize Republicans but have wet dreams when Democrats do it.
It is my opinion that you have a warped relationship with democracy. The voters clearly spoke out against the school board
and the tax hike. And your reaction is to accuse the majority party of breaking the law. Which is a lie on your part.
And you don't have the courage to call out the voters. Do you really think they were swayed by orange signs? Do you really think they are selfish for turning it down? If so, why don't you have the guts to say so? (Answer: It's because it's easier to invent straw dogs than to deal with the issues that prompted the good people of Brighton to vote against the tax. They knew it was only .28 a day, but they are so upset at the way money has been spent that they are saying, "Don't expect another dime until you clean up your act."
The district has a deficit of more than $2 million. That's a fact. They can't cover that gap with their fund equity because it's all gone. That's a fact.
Didn't you read the paper? The school attorney is preparing the paperwork so that Brighton can become a "deficit district." How much clearer can it be? Even you should be able to understand. Right?
Wow. It looks like brett is back. Pretty sleazy to accuse someone of being a child molester, but that’s typical of Republican smear tactics. I’m getting used to it. If I was a child molester I would not be able to use a computer. Better yet; I’ll use your logic and tactics. I can’t be a child molester because I’m the Commander of the Michigan State Police. It’s a fact because, like you, all I have to do is say it’s so. I certainly don’t have to provide any proof. Like you, all I have to do is say its so and it has to be accepted as fact. The truth I’m neither a child molester or the Commander Michigan State Police.
You are the ones making the claims, you Google it and give me the links.
My “assertions about the county Republican party and the school election” are far from “ludicrous.” It may not be illegal for a party to endorse in a nonpartisan election; unethical but not illegal, but spending money to influence a nonpartisan election is, in my opinion, illegal.
The “head of the county party and every Republican” can issue an opinion about a nonpartisan issue, but they can’t use their resources to change the outcome of the election. You’re dam right Democrats opposed Cliff “Sleepy” Taylor. Supreme Court candidates are nominated by the political parties, so there is no stealth issue. As for this claim about Justice Hathaway’s campaign; I can’t find anything about it.
I have a “warped relationship with democracy?” No law says I have to agree with the majority of voters. My issue is more with the majority party being so power hungry that they want to make a farce out of nonpartisan election. So power hungry they broke the law.
No, I don’t think the majority were swayed just by orange signs. Yes, I think the voters were selfish, but the people who are even more selfish is the county Republicans Party who actively advocated for the defeat.
I read many newspapers. For the first time, the Brighton Area Schools is facing a budget deficit unless it finds the necessary cuts. That’s a fact. How much clearer can it be? Even you should be able to understand. Right?
The Brighton schools has adopted a deficit budget for the last 5 years. It has made up the deficit by spending its fund equity.
By your own statment, a political party "can't use their resources to change the outsome of an election." I assume you mean a nonpartisan election. First of all, you are wrong; they can use their resources for a nonpartisan election. Second, there is nothing unethical about it. Third, the state Democratic party funded the ads that criticized Taylor on behalf of Hathaway. So, according to you, are the Dems lawbreakers or are they unethical? Or is it only Republicans who have to follow your silly rules? Fact are facts: Democrats didn't break any laws funding the Taylor ads...and you have provided not one shred of proof that the county Republicans campaigned against the school tax; and, if they did, you have provided no proof that there is anything wrong with that. But you make the claim anyway...which is why I say I have as much proof that you are a child molester as you have in saying the Republicans acted illegally. You are wrong and, as usual, you are too pig-headed to admit it.
The Brighton schools have never adopted a deficit budget. The fund equity is simply revenue set aside for budget stabilization. Now, that may occur this year, but not yet.
Yes, a political party can't use their resources to influence the outcome of a nonpartisan election. The difference between the Supreme Court and the school board is one is a candidate and the other is a ballot issue. Justice Hathaway was nominated by the Michigan Democratic Party. To spend money to influence a ballot question you must form a ballot committee. A party can’t do that.
You need to take a look at the Youtube video if you need proof the Republican party campaigned against the ballot question.
This has to be two different people commenting, or you can‘t read very well.
If you don't want people posting anonymously you should fix it so that they must put a name to their posts. If anonymous is the option, then deal with the statements and quit whining about someone's identity.
Wait a minute. I have to look at a YouTube video, but you won't accept information as fact without a link.
Are you saying that the Brighton school board is lying, because they've said they have drained fund equity?
If Democrats are so proud of campaigning against Taylor, why won't they release the names of the donors who funded the attack ads?
Where, again, is your proof that the county Republicans broke the law? Why can't individuals have a position on a ballot issue? Why do you limit democratic freedom to certain people?
Why won't you provide proof that you've never been a child molester?
Thanks for your advice, Stevie. Perhaps you are right. However, I prefer not to put any barriers up to people providing input. It’s not a problem for people who post once or on a rare occasion, but I don’t understand why people who want to engage in debate and post continuously will not choose a screen name. So, I will keep it the same, and I will continue to “whine” when some cowardly ass anonymously calls me a child molester.
Of course I’m not a child molester. Again, if I was a child molester I would not be using a computer. If you think I am, then please call the Livingston County Sheriff’s Department. The number is (517) 546-2440. Call them and report me, or stop the false, disgusting smear.
Are you serious? The Youtube video is a post you have been attacking me on. Here’s the link since you do appear to be very computer savvy.
liberalmedianot.blogspot.com/2008/10/every-picture-tells-story-dont-it.html
I’m saying that the Brighton school board is lying, because they've said they have drained fund equity?” What? I agree they have drained the fund equity, and that’s why for the first time they are facing a deficit budget.
“If Democrats are so proud of campaigning against Taylor, why won't they release the names of the donors who funded the attack ads?” Did you ever notice the disclaimer at the end of the ad that says, “This ad was paid for the Michigan Democratic Party?”
For proof the Republican Party broke the law, see the above link with the Youtube video. Individuals can have a position on a ballot issue, and I have never said otherwise.
Actually, i've never called you a child molester. I've just used the same "evidence" you use to attack the Republicans to point out that you could be a child molester and, still, you don't deny it. Odd.
In fact you make up false defenses. You say you couldn't use a computer if you were a child molester. That's blatantly false. If you molested children but were never convicted, you could be using a computer. If your conviction had restrictions about computers, you could ignore the restrictions. Why did you feel the need to create a false defense? Hmmmm.
You first said the Republicans acted illegally. No ifs, ands or buts. Now you say it is your assumption that they acted illegally, but you still provide no facts. Maybe that's your way of confessing that you made an allegation without a shred of facts. The county GOP let some guy drop off signs at their center. That's all. They did nothing illegal; they did nothing unethical. Maybe some of them...maybe many of them ... voted against the tax, which is really what upsets you. But they have that right in a democratic society...and they will as long as folks like you aren't in charge.
So...I'm curious. How come you won't just say you've never been a child molester? Or better yet: Show that there is more evidence about Republican lawbreaking regarding the tax vote than there is evidence about you being a molester. I'd say the evidence is about equal...and based on that evidence you are the one who said that Republicans broke the law...so maybe in a strange way you are confessing. Is that what is happening here?
Actually, you did call me a child molester repeatedly, who-ever-you-are. I provided evidence of Republicans broke the law. How many times do I have to deny your false, cowardly smear? I even challenged you to do something about it. I will do it one more time.
If you think I am a child molester, then please call the Livingston County Sheriff’s Department. The number is (517) 546-2440 . Call them and report me. Either call them or stop the false, disgusting smear.
This should be the last time I hear about it. I provide proof with the youtube video. Also, the spokesman of the Republican front group said they paid for the signs.
What proof did you provide that the Republicans broke the law? None. None whatsoever. But I'll use your childish response back at you...if they broke the law, report it to the authorities.
Your statement: "The Republican Party illegally campaigned in a nonpartisan election by spending money to influence the election." It's a lie; you know it's a lie. You can't back it up but you don't have the guts to admit it. So you keep repeating it. How, to use one of your words, disgusting.
The You Tube piece shows only that the signs were in the building. That proves nothing. That's not illegal. They are totally allowed to have any signs they want there. The group that paid for the signs may include people who are Republicans, but that doesn't mean that the Republican Party paid for them. That's weaker than most of your arguments, which is saying a lot.
I never said you were a molester. But using your arguments, I could say that it hasn't been proven that you are not a molester. And, still, you won't say you are not one. You just don't want me bringing up the subject.
Hmmmmm.....
What proof did you provide that the Republicans broke the law? None. None whatsoever. But I'll use your childish response back at you...if they broke the law, report it to the authorities. If not, I don't want to hear about it anymore. (That's your style of argument.)
Your statement: "The Republican Party illegally campaigned in a nonpartisan election by spending money to influence the election." It's a lie; you know it's a lie. You can't back it up but you don't have the guts to admit it. So you keep repeating it. How, to use one of your words, disgusting.
The You Tube piece shows only that the signs were in the building. That proves nothing. That's not illegal. They are totally allowed to have any signs they want there. Just like I can have signs in my front yard. Just like you can interupt my home with telemarketing calls. The group that paid for the signs may include people who are Republicans, but that doesn't mean that the Republican Party paid for them. That's weaker than most of your arguments, which is saying a lot.
I never said you were a molester. Show me the line where I did. You can't. It's another one of your lies. But using your style of argument, I could say that it hasn't been proven that you are not a molester. And tell me, when has that proof been offered. And, still, you won't say you are not one. You just don't want me bringing up the subject. And why do you know about laws that restrict child molesters from using computers?
Hmmmmm.....
I knew I was going to get smeared for daring to bring out the ethical lapses of the Grand Oil Party, so I’m used to the slime. I would think the election taught you that stuff doesn’t work, and how bankrupt your party is.
I provided the proof. I know about laws that restrict child molesters from using computers because I work in the Legislature.
Well, if anyone knows about child molesters, I guess it would be the Legislature. So I stand corrected.
You didn't provide one bit of proof that the Republicans broke the law. Not one bit. You are mad because the election didn't go your way, so you have to blame someone. Some signs were at the Republican center. That's not illegal. It's not unethical. You can't provide evidence and you can't tell the truth.
You can't or won't even address the point I'm making with the child molester references. I never, ever said you were a child molester. But I used your flimsy arguments and applied them to child molesting.
It's a sorry strategy that you are using and, in that way, you are similar to the Republicans you criticize. You don't want to address the issue, so you deflect it with red herrings. In a community that has historically supported schools, 60 percent of the voters said no to a modest tax. Rather that deal with the reasons for their discontent, you make up allegations that the Repubicans illegally influenced the election. It's a lie. You know it's a lie. Yet you perpetuate it. That, in your words, makes you the slime.
Sorry, I provided the proof, and it’s not only unethical it’s illegal. “The election didn’t go my way?” You are sadly mistaken. I live in Howell, so I didn’t vote in the election. It’s just sad that the Republican Party cares so little about schools and kids that they cheated in order to defeat a modest mileage.
To me, the bigger issue is the disgusting behavior of the Republican Party.
Again...you are a big fat liar. (Wait, that may not be fair. I don't know if you are big or fat.)
They didn't cheat. They didn't break a law.
What proof? The video? Please. Does the law according to you allow the Thought Police to determine what signs can be in a building?
The Republican Party did not cheat or break the law. You have provided no evidence. You just keep saying you did. But you didn't. Likewise, I can keep saying that you won't deny that you are a child molester. You did deny it, but I can keep saying you didn't...just like you say you provided proof when you didn't.
What proof? There isn't any because there wasn't a crime.
""but spending money to influence a nonpartisan election is, in my opinion, illegal."""
No, it's far from illegal, and democrats did it with Hathaway and Republicans were supposed to do it with Taylor. It's allowed as well with ballot committees. Show me where it is illegal? Which statute or case?
All the GOP would have to do if they spent money on this is to report it in the campaign finance reports. The ballot committee would have to report that in their report.
That’s ridiculous, and comparing the local Republicans stealth attempt to influence a nonpartisan ballot issue is not the same as the Supreme Court race where the candidates are nominated by the political parties at their conventions. So the Republicans party is registered as a ballot committee?
Guru has no interest in the truth. Otherwise he would:
a. Quit saying something is illegal when it didn't happen and, even if it did, it's not a crime.
b. Quit saying that I called him a child molester. I never did. You can read my posts. He may think he's a child molester...and I guess he would know...but I never called him one. Yet he keeps saying I did. (He better hope I'm not this Brett guy, because if I were, he has definitely libeled me by accusing me of something he knows is false. Read the posts and show me the one that says I called you a child molester. He's not a child molester, as far as I know.)
It’s illegal and unethical for the Livingston County Republicans Party to spend money to influence a nonpartisan ballot question and not registered as a ballot committee.
If you think I’ve libeled you, brett, please sue me, and don’t forget to call the Livingston Conyty Sheriff’s office to report me as a child molester, since you continue to throw that false accusation out there. I challenge you to do both, brett or who ever the hell you are.
I challenge you to be truthful. Show me where I accused you of being a child molester.
I never did. The proof is in your own posts. But you keep repeating it. It's almost as though you want it to be true....
“you could be molesting small children at swimming pools, but that doesn't mean you are.”
“Well, I can see why guru wants to hide from facts since it is possible that he could have molested children.”
Neither of those say you are a child molester. Can't you read? Or do you just know more than others know?
The first quote says "you could...but that doesn't mean you are." Can it be any clearer? How dense are you?
The second says "it is possible" and it is possible. Anything is possible. It's a satire on the fact that you say it's possible that the Republican phone bank called against the school tax although you have no knowledge that it happened. But because it is "possible" you make the allegation and say you have proof.
The proof of child molesting is every bit as solid as your proof that Republicans broke the law...which is to say that neither proof exists.
Surely even you can understand that. Right?
On the other hand, you have asked people to "call the Livingston County Sheriff's department to report me as a child molester."
That's a little strange.
That is so much bullshit. You made the suggestion and implication that I was a child molester.
It’s pretty clear from this quote that you called me a child molester,
“Well, I can see why guru wants to hide from facts since it is possible that he could have molested children.”
You are correct; I challenge you to report me as a child molester. Either do it or shut the fuck up. What’s strange about that? I am not a criminal, and I’m sick of the slime you throw around, especially from some coward who does it anonymously.
This is the last comment with the words “child molester.” Understand, brett.
That is so much bullshit. You made the suggestion and implication that I was a child molester.
It’s pretty clear from this quote that you called me a child molester,
“Well, I can see why guru wants to hide from facts since it is possible that he could have molested children.”
You are correct; I challenge you to report me as a child molester. Either do it or shut the fuck up. What’s strange about that? I am not a criminal, and I’m sick of the slime you throw around, especially from some coward who does it anonymously.
This is the last comment with the words “child molester.” Understand, brett.
Apparently, you didn’t understand what I was saying when I said I didn’t want to hear those words again. If adult language offends you, go someplace else.
Bye
Truth hurts, huh?
Truth hurts, huh?
Show me some.
Sorry. I told you I didn’t want to see those two words again. If you want to post it again with the words I warned you about, be my guest.
"If I want to post it again with the words I warned you about, be my guest."
As usual you make no sense.
Nice to know how much you support free speech though. Not.
So I produced a devastating list of truths, and you are too much of a fucking coward to print it. What bullshit.
Now those are words you like. So are you going to censor them as well?
What a moron!
Can you see how stupid you look?
How else can I make my point?
I am baffled by your ignorance.
Look, I exposed your lies.
Don't you see that?
Maybe you are really that dense.
Or, do you just like the game?
Looks like you don't care.
Either than, or you are insane.
Simply admit you are wrong.
That's the adult thing to do.
Exactly what is your problem.
Right now, I'm through with you.
Sorry, it was a typo. If you want to post it again without the words I warned you about, be my guest and I will be more than happy to debunk your “devastating list.”
You are such a fool. I just posted the words you are so frightened of. And you can't even see it.
What a moron.
Wow. Clever. You are so bright. That must have taken a while. Again, if you want to post your “devastating list” without the words I warned you about so I can debunk it again, please be my guest.
Oops. He censored me again.
You can't handle the truth. But maybe you do handle other objects.
Of course the words aren't true. And that's not the reason he blocked the post. The real reason is because he made wild and untrue charges against the Republican Party. The poster called him on those baseless accusations with a litany of well thought-out facts and arguments. Guru went berserk and finally just pulled the posts.
You are right. It's his blog and he can do what he wants. And what he wants to do is spread biased information and attack the other party...which is what the other party was rightly accused of doing on a national level. So, you see, there isn't that much difference between Guru and Karl Rove...except Rove makes more money, I suspect.
That's completely false. First, aren’t you he?
Second, I invited him/you to repost his/your list, minus the slimily, false accusation I warned him/you about, so I could debunk them, but you/him declined.
Guru..I think you have a credibility problem here. You clearly did charge the local Republicans with breaking the law...but you have not backed it up in any way, and you have gotten a little out of control in your responses.
I voted for the school tax and I would love to debate Mr. Conley (sp?) over its merits. But I have seen no evidence that the Republicans were anything other than sympathetic to his cause. I disagree, but they have that right. And it appears to be just individuals who happen to be Republican. I see no evidence that the party official endorsed a no vote...nor do I understand what crime they would have committed had they done so. The video you reference does nothing to support your claim. There are signs in the room. Big deal. I have political signs on my lawn. Did I break the law? They did nothing underground that I can see nor that you have produced. You say they spent money to oppose the tax and you suggest they made phone calls to defeat it. Any proof? Do you know of one person who got a Vote No call? And if they did, do you know that it came from the county Republicans? In the You Tube video they aren't even talking about the school vote. There are some signs on the floor...and as I recall, one of the tax opponents asked if he could leave them there. Hardly illegal. What else do you know?
It looks like you were caught lying and rather than come clean, you've become foolishly indignant over what was clearly a tongue-in-cheek remark which, come to think of it, was pretty clever in using the same tactics you were using and throwing them back at you. You didn't take it very well...which was probably the poster's point.
The poster also put up a lot of good facts and named his references and you kept saying it was only opinion. Seemed pretty factual to me.
And then you start calling him names and accusing him of being Brett someone. Do you think that's true? Why? Is the rest of your blog as accurate as your wild accusations against the Republicans and your claim that anyone who criticizes you must be Brett?
Go ahead, take shots at me. But it would be nice if you would answer the questions and debate the matter on its merit. Your behavior is very disappointing.
And I'm someone who voted for the school taxes and for Obama. We really don't need your type of help.
Signed,
NOTBRETT
It's funny, because I believe Brett is the one that pointed me to this blog. Someone made a comment about this site or someone on this site at another blog that is run by someone named Brett. Could it be the same one? He laughed at the notion that he was being accused of writing here and said that he hadn't been here for quite some time. So if this Brett is the one that I think it is, he's writing his own blog called conservative lifestyle. He said that if he was posting anywhere, I'd always know it because he puts his name on everything he writes and never sends things anonymously. He was correct about things that I noticed right off the bat when I first started looking at this blog. He said it really bugs the owner of this blog when people post anonymously. I have seen that myself just in this story and postings that have been been done here. It seems that even other Democrats are now noticing the same thing as I was told about.
It just dawned on me that someone named Brett is getting more play on here than the political games this blog writer is writing about.
And yet Brett's blog has no visitors (at least according to the amount of comments).
Also, Anonymous said Nice to know how much you support free speech though. Not.
Censorship and the prohibition of free speech is a function of government, not an individual's blog.
Dargo has a point...and it pains me to say that...but not entirely. Back in the days before and during the Civil War, unruly mobs destroyed newspaper offices and tossed presses into the river in order to suppress the free flow of in formation. That's a squashing of free speech and it's a form of censorship. It's just not government sanctioned.
But I see dargo's point. There is nothing that stops me from making my points elsewhere...just not on guru's blog. So it isn 't really censorship.
I guess what I'm saying is that guru really doesn't support the free flow of ideas...only those that he agrees with. In that way, he's more like Sean Hannity than he would like to admit.
Dargo makes a point. I shot down his feeble accusations rather convincingly, so he destroys the evidence. But you are right -- it's not censorship, but it is chicken shit.
CG...Now you're an UNRULY MOB!!!
*clutches pearls nervously*
Careful,dargo...if you keep using "two words," he might cut you off.
This is so much bullshit. I have proved the Livingston County Republican Party broke campaign finance law. As for this alleged censoring and “cutting you off,” I gave you fair warning that if you continue to call me that despicable name I would delete the comments. You continued to do so. Any comments you make that do not have those words will stay.
As for brett, you fit the pattern, No matter how often you answer his charges, debunk his points or even debate him to a standoff he contains to keep posting the same crap. So, as far as I’m concerned anyone who posts anonymously is brett. He may or may not have posted here anonymously after I began deleting his posts after he made the same slimily accusation and I warned him to stop; I don’t know or don’t care if he posted here anonymously again.
I’m willing to admit I’m wrong if you prove something to me. There are still campaign signs around the county. Take a look at any one of them, and somewhere on the sign you will find the words, in some kind of order “paid for by the committee to…” or words to that effect. Look at the orange anti-Brighton millage sings paid for by the county GOP. If you see those words anywhere on that sign, I will admit I’m wrong.
Are you stupid?
From Comm Guru's post at 9:43 pm:
No matter how often you answer his charges, debunk his points or even debate him to a standoff he contains to keep posting the same crap.
Also from Comm Guru's post at 9:43 pm.
Look at the orange anti-Brighton millage sings paid for by the county GOP.
From Comm Guru's 3:55 post:
My assumption is they not only paid for the signs, they did more than that.
Hotice he said "assumption". An assumption is not a fact.
From Comm Guru's post at 7:11 :
It may not be illegal for a party to endorse in a nonpartisan election; unethical but not illegal, but spending money to influence a nonpartisan election is, in my opinion, illegal.
"In my opinion, illegal"? The opinion of a blog writer is not the law. The law written is the law. You may not agree with what you tbink happened, but your opinion doesn't make it illegal. It may have been better for you to say it was immoral or just unethical, but to state it's illegal in your opinion and then continue to say you've proven it illegal only makes you look sillier with each post.
Nice post "anonymous 11:13." I challenged guru to prove his point, but he pulled the post...which is par for his style.
By his standards of proof, the Democrats must have broken the law because there is nothing on the orange signs that says they paid for them. Sounds crazy, I know, but that's his logic.
In that vein, I asked him to show me the document at the sheriff's office that says he has never committed a serious crime. He can't do that, so I have to wonder about his criminal record. (I think you will see the point of this, but I doubt if he will.)
Some signs were left at the Republican office and he turns that into a crime. It's easier to scream about that then to accept the fact that voters overwhelmingly turned down a modest tax hike. If you ignore the facts, in his mind, then you don't have to deal with the reason. (By the way, the paper reported yesterday that the district has a $2 million revenue deficit and only $180,000 left in fund equity at the end of last year. This, even though it is the best funded school district in Livingston County.)
I've challenged him numerous times to prove his point and, as you point out, he has failed. So I used the same tactics on him and he flips out...and he removes my posts.
I feel a movie line coming up here: Guru can't handle the truth.
Guru--
You can end this silliness easily.
Either:
1. Provide proof that the Republicans broke the law. As others have pointed out, you repeatedly make that accusation but you don't back it up and, in fact, contradict yourself.
2. Admit that you stretched your claim and say you felt it was in poor taste for the signs to be handed out at their election center.
Number 2 option, which appears to be the truth, would merely be your opinion. Some may disagree with it, but it's a valid opinion.
Then get off your high horse and respond to that poster's facts. He detailed the Brighton teacher contract and you keep calling it opinion.
The only posts deleted were the ones that used a certain accusation after you were warned not to do so. Calling me a lair, an idiot, stupid, etc. are fair game here. The bottom line is the county GOP is its quest for all power has tried to make a sham of the nonpartisan elections, and it is a trend that began a few tears ago. They are so power hungry, in fact, that they acted unethically and illegally in this election. As for the signs, even, for the sake of argument, if it's not the county GOP paying for the signs, whoever is paying for them acted illegally by not having the required disclaimer saying who did pay for them. But there is a reason for that.
I don't think you're stupid.. If you want to debate and see your comments stay, please refrain from the one false accusation I asked you and warned you to refrain from. That is not an unreasonable request.
Again, the guy calling himself anonymous did not make an accusation. "Could" "might be" "may be" are not accusations. They are using the same properties that you used in your comments. It's simple to see, all you have to do is look back at your comments and his comments. You each said the same thing but on two different matters. There is a saying that seems to apply here: "Me thinks thou doeth protest too much."
Again, I did not make an unreasonable request. I'm "not protesting too much." I'm simply asking you keep your attacks on me in the realm of my intelligence and truthfulness or lack of.
I'm also confused, "the guy calling himself anonymous" is you.
I've tried to address the veracity of your claims and you either delete my posts or you blindly say: Show me facts, it's only opinion...even when I specifically provide detailed facts.
You, on the other hand, accuse the GOP of breaking the law without any proof and, as others have noted, you even contradict yourself.
I try to stay within the realm of your intelligence, but it's hard to stoop that low.
You also keep saying I am other people when I'm not. I'm not Brett and I'm not the other "anonymous" posters, although I admit that it can be pretty confusing.
You seem to say the Republicans broke the law by paying for signs without putting that on the signs. You also suggest they used their phone bank to oppose the tax. Do you have even the minimum decency then to answer these questions:
1. What proof do you have that the Livingston County Republican Pary paid for the Vote No orange signs or in any way financed a Vote No campaign?
2. Can you produce someone who heard the Republican phone bank calling to promote a No vote, or mentioning the school ballot issue at all? Or, can you provide anyone who received such a call? If not, how can you say those calls occurred.
Please don't answer by saying it was people who are Republicans who purchased and placed the signs. That may be true, but that doesn't make it a product of the county Republican Party. No more than the county Democratic Party is responsible for things done by individual Democrats.
Be decent and fair. You've said the county Republicans broke the law. But you know they didn't.
Oops...he took down another post of mine. And all I did was take a direct quote of his and restate it. He's admitting that his style and posts are deceptive and repulsive.
He also refuses to answer basic questions. So I'll make it as simple as possible: Where is your proof that the county GOP broke the law?
I've warned you time and time that your comments will be deleted if you use two certain words in any fashion. I've invited you repost your claims minus the two words. You refuse to do so, and instead accuse me of deleting your posts for no reason.
Time after time, you - I think it's you, since you refuse to take ownership of what you write – make these claims about Brighton schools, but you repeatedly refuse to provide a single link or reference for your claims. That makes it an opinion. Why should I accept as fact anything from someone who not only refuses to identify himself, but refuses to use a screen name so what you write can be attributed to you.
The proof the Republican Party broke the law may be circumstantial, but it's proof none the less. People have been put on death row with less evidence. Like I have said before, brett is my name for any body that posts anonymously and throws cowardly smears around.
I have answered these questions before, but I'll do it again.
1. The signs were in their office, and they have no business advocating for or against a nonpartisan ballot issue. The signs were paid for by some group called "Parents Union Local No. 1." Of the four identified members, two are members of the county party's executive committee and one is a contributor. This group is not, as far as I know at this point, registered as a ballot committee, which is required if you are going to spend money to influence an election. The signs did not say who paid for them, so who really paid for them and who do we prosecute for not following that law?
2. No, but I don't have much contact with Republicans anymore, and like one would really admit that to me. Since they are the majority party, all they have to do is call their own party members and it's defeated. That's what really makes it unethical when a partisan group gets involved in a nonpartisan ballot issue.
I have no problem with what individual Republicans do, but when the party uses donated funds to organize then it crosses the line.
anonymous, you're not even a coherent troll.
You are lying...lying...lying. You say I've made claims about Brighton schools without a single link or reference. I've made frequent references, specifically to the Brighton Education Association contract and to the Michigan Department of Education website. I did not provide a link...it's not my fault if you are too lazy or too stupid to look them up.
Do you think my facts are wrong? Which ones. I specifically detailed the salary raises enjoyed by Brighton teachers, taking my examples directly from their contract...and you called that opinion.
And you still refuse to provide substantiation for your claim that the county GOP broke the law with regard to the Brighton school tax issue. It's another one of your pathetic lies.
Wow, dargo, pretty big words for you. But let's be honest. For dargo to suggest I'm not coherent is about like guru suggestion that I'm not a moral person. Considering the source, it really doesn't mean much.
And, you will notice, even without those two horrible words, guru won't answer the questions.
Sorry, brett, you are wrong. You didn't provide a single reference I could verify. So it's my job to footnote your claims? No, it's not.
Readers should know that guru won't answer direct evidence that refutes his lies...he pulls the posts and then lies about the reason.
Oh, it looks like I've been told. *eyeroll*
They have no business advocating for or again st a nonpartisan ballot issue? Says who?
I saw leading state Democrats advocating for stem cell research..and for medical marijuana. Did they have no business doing that? Of course they did.
So who really paid for them? Maybe it was members of the man-boy-love association. No one has proven otherwise, so it must be true.
Guru..the scary thing is that you might actually believe the crap you write. Please tell me you are just bullshitting. Otherwise it's scary that people like you are out in public.
Once again, Guru ignores the posts and the arguments that use his own words to disprove his claims...and which expose him as a liar.
He takes down the most devastating posts, under the ruse that the poster is using "those two words." But those words stay up on posts that don't rip apart his arguments.
Guru=pathetic.
How is that possible because you have not disproved anything? You have been warned repeatedly not to use that disgusting, false smear or your comment with those words would be deleted, but you stubbornly and childishly continue to do so. You were given the option of reposting anything deleted minus the two words you were warned about, but you just as stubbornly refuse to do so.
You have never made a "devastating post, troll.
I guess when it comes to knowing about childish activities, guru would likely know what he is talking about. Considering his past, that is.
Why are you afraid to take your proof against the Republicans to the authorities? Are you afraid they might check into your background? Why is that?
And what in my background should I be afraid of, Troll? I am proud of my background. I spent 20 years in the military, and I have been an upstaging citizen since retiring; and have spent may hours volunteering.
Who exactly were you upstaging? And is that what it's called these days?
Thanks, for pointing out that typo, Mr. Troll. The word is upstanding. Thanks again.
Upstaging citizen sounds right. Military background? I don't believe it. Unless it's don't ask don't tell.
That's fine. I could care less what some anonymous troll who haters the troops thinks. But if you really want to find out, ask around, or look at last year's vet's day post.
So...when Republicans use the "hates the troops" line, it's disgusting. But you pull it out of your ass at a moment's notice. Nice.
Here's what you don't get. You think there is just one "anonymous" busting your chops. But there are several. I don't recognize a lot of these "anonymous" posts until they appear here, but I like them when I see them.
Your only support on this thread is dargo...that should tell you something.
I'll tell you what, troll. I have never, ever questioned another veteran's service - not even John McCain's - like you just did to mine. Wait, you're claiming there are several anonymous "busting my chops?" And I know that how? And that proves what? That there is more than one coward too afraid to take ownership of the trash they write they cannot even choose a screen name so what they write can be identified? That should tell you something.
I have lots of reader, but that doesn't mean they all comment. Here' what you don't get. See, here’s the thing about my friend Dargo. Every time he comments here, I know it's him. I have no idea who he really is, and I have never met him. But he takes ownership of what he writes. You, on the other hand, are a fucking coward who hides behind the anonymous tag and gigs me because I can't tell one anonymous coward from another.
I don't know what "gigs you" means. Your crowd apparently has its own code words.
I don't criticize you for not between able to tell anonymous posters apart. I criticize you for stating..as fact..that you know who they are.
I have never questioned your service. It's another lie you tell.
More lies. You said, "Military background? I don't believe it. Unless it's don't ask don't tell."
I took that as an insult.
I don't understand what you mean by the statement." I don't criticize you for not between able to tell anonymous posters apart. I criticize you for stating..as fact..that you know who they are."
That makes zero sense, and not just the typo.
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